Anatomy of a Filicide

CAUTION! CONTAINS LANGUAGE NOT SUITED FOR ALL AGES

It’s a perfect day for a murder

Dear Diary,

Last night I had a terrible fight with my mother. I hate her guts. It’s the worst fight we’ve ever had. Sometimes, I can’t decide who I hate the most, her or Dad, but I am so pissed off, I wish she was dead. Him too. Why, oh why, does she think I am a bad person when it is her? She sucks. I want her out of my life. I need to get away from this house and these people forever.

If Tony would only take me away. He must. He’s got to help me. Why do I feel my life is such a mess? If only I didn’t have the brat. She is nothing more than a pain in my ass. Today, I will start my life all over again. With Tony. Or Ricardo. Or… OK, Jesse. If not Jesse… and SHE will never be with us, whoever I’m with. Jesse? If only you didn’t love her so much, we might still be together. Maybe not.

Mom? You think you can take her away from me, but I will never let you. She would make you so happy because she could be the daughter you’ve always wanted. It was never me. You never loved me. What do you think I should do with her? It’s too late. You can’t have her and I don’t want her. I’ve made my mind up and today is it. That little shit will never, ever ruin my life again. She is dead. Screw you all and you will never find out about her. You think I’m crazy, do you? I’ll show you what crazy is all about. You got it. I’ll get even with you. You won’t ever be able to spoil her again.

Dad? Eff you, you weak son of a bitch. You are such a pussy. You let Mom run all over you. I’ve had enough of you and you think you were such a hotshot cop. Oh yeah? You are nothing and you will never figure out what I did with her because I am way smarter than you. You can rot in Hell. Besides, you always loved Lee more than me. You both did.

Lee? Just go on living in your simple little world. God, if you only knew how much I’ve used you over the years, you’d realize just how stupid you are. So’s your girlfriend. Too bad you’re not here to say good bye.

Brat? Today is the day. You will never see me again. Better yet, I will never see you again. Even better still, your grandmother is going to really, really suffer and in the end, I will laugh at you all. Sleep late. I don’t want you seeing Ci Ci before she goes to work. That’s why our door is shut. OK, here, take Mommy’s nanny Zani pill.

I’ve been planning this day for a long time. It didn’t have to be today, but after last night, this is it. It had to come sometime, because I was going nuts. Today, I feel liberated. My mind is made up. What? You wonder why Mommy is in such a good mood? Quick, go see Grandpa Jo Jo before we go. I need to get ready.

OK, Baby, let’s get going. I’ll see you later, Dad. I’ve got some errands to run. C’mon, let’s go. Say good bye to Jo Jo. Tell him you love him. Yes, we’ll see you later. Wave to him as we drive away. Go ahead, Sweetheart.

12:40 pm

She didn’t really need to go anywhere early that afternoon. She just wanted to get out of that house, away from the pain of the night before, so she drove around, chatting endlessly on her cell phone with her boyfriend, Tony, her ex-boyfriend Jesse, and her then-best friend, Amy, never paying any attention to her daughter. She headed down Chickasaw Trail to Lee Vista Boulevard, where she killed some time, about a half hour, at the shopping plaza; then she took off up Narcoossee to Goldenrod. From there, she headed north to Curry Ford and turned into the Winn Dixie shopping center just to kill more time until her father left and the coast was clear. OK, let’s go home for a minute. Mommy forgot something. It was easy to tell her toddler that they needed to go back home. Besides, the little girl always felt safe and secure in that house. Maybe, she messed her pants and Mom forgot the pull-up diapers and the pack of Nice’n Toddler wipes and that angered her. Oh, Come on. You’re too old for this. Whatever, this was the day she had been planning for a long time. She was starting to feel happy again, something she hadn’t been since before the day her daughter was born. She started the car and drove east on Curry Ford until she turned south on Chickasaw to return to the neighborhood where she grew up.

3:00 pm

When they got back to the house, they went into the bathroom where she cleaned the little girl and dried her off . Then, she led her into the bedroom. Mommy will be right back.  She went out to the garage to get the duct tape and a couple of trash bags. Then, she walked back in, took the bags into the bedroom and began peeling a swath of tape off the roll. Here, Mommy wants to play a little game. Come on, you little brat. She started to stick the tape around her head, from the left side of her face and far into her hair.

Mommy, what are you doing? the little girl wondered, unable to really speak like an adult and too tired too fight. Mommy, Mommy, Murfurlbalbl… The tape was now wrapped around the toddlers head and Mommy tore it off the roll, making sure it was stuck firmly to her mouth. She picked the small child up, who was lightly kicking and breathing through her nostrils, wimpering like crazy, as if begging for her life, but the pill had begun to take its toll.

Stop kicking, you little shit! Tears of fear were rolling off the little girl’s face as she struggled to free herself, but she was no match for her mother, as slight of build as she was. Finally, the Xanax she had given her earlier kicked in and the precious bundle of joy gave up. She set her daughter down and hurried into the bathroom to grab a bottle from under the sink. She poured the homemade chloroform onto a wad of folded up toilet paper, returned and held it against her daughter’s nose, just to make sure. All of the faith and trust this girl had in her mother was as weak as her now shallow breaths. What was so different this time as her mother picked her up, was how much heavier she seemed. I guess she never knew much about dead weight. Well, she was never as bright as she thought she was.

She carried her out into the back yard and walked up to the above ground swimming pool. The body made a light splash as it was dropped in. She held her under water until the bubbles stopped. It didn’t take long. The child-like breaths that once smelled like a field of fresh flowers on a breezy Spring day were forever silenced. The life she brought into this world was now dead by her own hands. To her, it was the most exhilarating, the most liberating feeling in a long, long time – until she tried to lift the child out of the water. Wow! This kid is heavy. She hadn’t thought about how much the water would log her down. She propped her little body against the edge of the pool, pulling her arms out and over the side. That gave her a chance to go get the pool ladder that would act as leverage as she struggled to pull the girl out of the water.

anthony-swimming-pool1

One of the things she’s known for is that she doesn’t like to follow directions. She’s never been good at finishing jobs, either. If her mother hadn’t been around to lecture and complain, her bedroom would have been a mess. When she pressed the ladder against the swimming pool, she never attached it firmly. That’s why the ladder was left next to the pool and it explains why she never closed the gate behind her. She never followed up on anything unless someone like her mother was behind her every step of the way and that angered her so.

3:30 pm

Fortunately for her, the pet dogs were napping when she re-entered the house. Casey always demanded that her parents stay out of her room. They always granted her wish for privacy. She was, after all, an adult woman and she needed her space. She walked into the bedroom, dropped her daughter onto the floor and put her soiled clothes into one of the bags. She dried the body and opened the other bag to put her little girl inside. Then, she pushed her under the bed, grabbed the bag of clothes and walked out of the room, shutting the door firmly behind her. She had to be very careful about making sure the door was properly closed. For one night, her bedroom was to be Caylee’s mausoleum. When she walked out the front door with bag in hand, she took one more brief look inside the house before locking the door. Good bye, she thought. Eff this house. No more fights. No more naggingI am free, but she knew she had to come back tomorrow. This was enough work for one day.

caylees-bedroom-door1

Bedroom Door

bedroom

Bedroom
This article is a work of fiction. It is not intended to imply actual characters and/or events.

©2009 – David B. Knechel – All rights reserved

Advertisements

369 thoughts on “Anatomy of a Filicide

  1. Dave, as I was reading Your Version what could have happened to Caylee and how she was killed,
    I had Tears in my Eyes and cold Chills all over my Body thinking of that beautiful Child Caylee and what she must have went through before she took her last Breath.
    I always thought there was the Possibility she was killed at her own Home.
    This is fascinating Dave, You might be on to something.
    I still have a hard time believing Casey could have done that, at the same time all the Evidence
    does show she did commit that Crime.
    Very sad indeed.
    Thank You Dave to share Your Theory with us,
    You put a lot of time into this and I must say it makes a lot of Sense.

  2. Thank you, Hilde. Yes, a lot of thought went into it, but I must stress that it is a fictional account of what may have happened. I don’t know if any of us will ever know for sure.

  3. Dave, I guess she must have dried Caylee off before she brought her back in the House and laid her down on Casey’s Bedroom Floor otherwise the Floor would have been soaking wet?
    Also why did she go through all the Trouble to put Caylee in the Pool, if she was so desperate to make sure Caylee was dead, she could have just put her Head under Water in the Bathtub. I guess You are right, she wasn’t as smart as she thought she was.
    All of this is very gruesome and sad.

  4. You are right, we may never know what she did to Caylee and how she died. I do however strongly believe Caylee was killed in her Home.
    We just have to wait and see how this Tragedy will
    unfold. Casey is the only One who knows what she did with her Daughter.
    How she can live with that Knowledge the Rest of her Life is beyond me.
    JMO
    I need to go for now, there are many Things to do around here, one is to fix Breakfast.
    Have a good Day Dave!

  5. Dave, you are very talented. I had a hard time reading your story and i know it is fictional. I agree with Hilde, you might be closer to the truth than you think. Anyway, thank you for sharing with us. Wish i could watch the video, but when you have dial – up it is almost impossible. Hope you have a wonderful day.

  6. Aloha, Dave

    Its early morning in Hawaii, and my office faces the east, so I usually can see the sunrise. Today its magnificent, broad stripes of salmon across light puffy clouds. Most people think Hawaii is the land of sunsets, however sunrises are also quite beautiful. It makes me think that God is in His heaven and all is right with the world.

    Alas ,that is not the case. Your fictional account is very probing and shows the Skakespearean nature of the Anthony family, and how fate has a treacherous way of guiding our weaknesses.

    Your account suggests the discussion of evil versus goodness. How many of us stop to pause in our busy and demanding life and consider the existence of evil? Philosophers have debated this for centuries, so I wont try it here.

    Suffice to say

    If evil does exist- and I think it does- so does goodness, as evidenced by this gorgeous sunrise which promises a new day. Maybe goodness will eventually prevail against the forces of evil in this drama.

  7. Thank you, deb. Dial-up is not fun, but the video is just an overhead view from a helicopter. It puts the swimming pool in perspective with the rest of the backyard on the far left side.

  8. Dave,
    You really should get your head examined. It’s almost perverse just how delusional you are. After reading this drivel I am left speechless at how Norman Bates-ish you come across. Please do yourself and the community at large a favor and get some help…you so need it.
    MS

  9. Good morning, Ray – The way you described that sunrise, I’m thinking that you should think about doing some serious writing. That was so beautiful and visual. And the reference to Shakespeare was eloquent, to say the least.

    Unfortunately, evil does exist, but goodness and mercy will always win in the end. I just wish more people felt more compassion here. The woman has some problems and she is and will remain in total denial. One thing is almost certain, she will one day lose her opportunities to see magnificent sunrises and sunsets, and let me tell you, they are very beautiful here in Florida, too.

    Thank you for your wonderful and inspiring comment.

  10. So, Dr. Mike. This is your official diagnosis? Wow, how astute. I guess my imagination got away from me. Casey Anthony is not sitting in jail, charged with first-degree murder, and her daughter is not really dead. You think I should get my head examined? Norman Bates? Look, you didn’t pay to read this fictional story and no one forced you to do so. Go read something from the children’s section. I’m sure they’ll have what you’re looking for.

    Obviously, I didn’t leave you speechless enough.

  11. Jesus !!!!! Caylee was dead and hid under the bed???? Is that any better than accidental death in the trunk of a car?

    Okay, where is the crew that is going to disagree with this “fictional story.”……Detwill39, Weezie, magog2, Ina, Beatrice….ANYBODY??

  12. the Way I see it ,we all have our own Opinions about this Case. Some of us have Theories how
    this Crime was committed.
    None of us know for sure how it happened.
    We will find out a lot more at the Trial
    The Fact is, Cayle Marie Anthony was murdered
    at the young Age of not quite 3 Yrs. old and her Mother is charged with her Murder and sitting in Jail. It is a very tragic Situation.
    I don’t think Dave deserves to be criticised in such a negative Manner just because he is sharing his Theory and we should take it as such a Theory, nothing more or less
    Myself I like to keep an open Mind and I do not
    respect other Peoples Opinion any less just because they don’t believe the same thing I do.
    I believe there is a better Way to express Your Disagreement without being rude. JMO
    By the Way why couldn’t Dave’s Theory be possible? It very well could be, we don’t know, we just have to wait and see.

  13. Thanks, Hilde, and you’re right. It is just an opinion and I could never make a statement that that’s exactly the way it happened. Who knows for sure?

    I figured I’d get some flack over it. It goes with the territory, I guess. Anything controversial gets that sort of treatment.

  14. Dave, I am not disagreeing with you at all. My thoughts had just gone to how a person disagrees with a FICTIONAL story. lol

  15. And, by now you know I am not going to entertain the thoughts of “ugly” connected with this case. So, my mind goes to the question of “can you disagree with a fictional story.” lol

    I am sorry to say your theory seems to fit quite well. Do you think the flurry of calls to mom and dad were to check and make sure no one had “vacumned under the bed.”

  16. Oh. I wonder how someone can agree with a fictional story, but I guess anything is possible here. Everything I’ve examined so far fits in this scenario, as I see it, but I could very easily be wrong.

  17. I don’t know. I think the phone calls certainly fit the pattern of someone trying to change focus and shift gears to something else, almost a form of apology, but only to enhance her self for doing it, like a completion, of sorts.

  18. “agree with fictional story”…..good point. lol

    What a sick, sick child.

    I am going to think of sunsets and sunrises as we get rain, ice and snow !!

  19. Hi Dave –

    Ray – Your words are just beautiful – I can see that sunrise and I’m all the way in Chicago 🙂

    Interesting story/theory – Dave – just wondering…why both the xanex and the choloform? Also, just for discussion’s sake, using your timeline, the xanex would have taken effect much earlier? Am I misreading?

    Thanks..

  20. here in Indiana it is 58 and Rain in the Forecast.
    Spring is finally here.
    Here in Indiana there is a Saying, if You don’t like the Weather, stick around for a little while and it will change. never boring.

  21. Hi, Lori –

    Yes, it was a beautiful sunrise, wasn’t it?

    The Xanax could have been broken into quarters and administered on 4 different occasions that way. In my tale, it was used to slow the girl down more than to incapacitate her. The chloroform was just for good measure to make sure she was out. Whether any of this took place, it’s not so much the point, I think. The fact that she may have cold bloodedly killed her in a fashion like this is the telling part, not so much the incidentals.

  22. That reminds me of an old friend, Wayne Trout. He passed away a few years ago and I’ve written about him before. He had a flight attendant girlfriend who rolled into town every so often. To both of them, it was a physical relationship, not emotional. Her name was Diana and she was from Indiana. One day, he asked a group of us (guys) if we could think of a nickname for her, you know, his own special way of being personal, like Schnookums or something. The only thing I could think of, and it was no special nickname at all, was In Diana. We all laughed at that one.

  23. Yes – i do agree to the coldness of this and agree with you that it was not an accident, it was something she’d been thinking about and finally she did it. Just terrible – however it happened. For a long time, i hoped it had been an accident but too many things made me think otherwise…can’t think about it detail too much (the tape just makes me sick) – can’t get my brain around intentionally hurting that beautiful child.

    One question please – I wonder why we still haven’t read any discovery regarding Mark Hawkins (Army guy in California, Casey talked with him alot on the cell phone, they had dated..) – at what point in the case does the prosecution have to turn over all discovery/transcripts? Is there a cut off point before the trial starts or can it be presented right up to trial time?

    Thank you!

  24. Hm.. Dave, that wasn’t much of a Nickname lol
    I am not really from Indiana, I am originally from Munich, Germany but Indiana is my Home
    now, it took me a long time to get used to it, but now I do like it here.

  25. Your version on what of could of happened, gave me chills….Although it is fictional,it could also be a possible reality of what may of happened to Caylee…I also believed Casey hated her life having Caylee and she hated her parents just as much…I also believe she was killed at home..The suffering this child had to endure is heartbreaking……Caylee never stood a chance..Thank you for sharing your Theory…We all have our own thoughts on what could of happened to Caylee…Not so sure we will ever truely know for a fact…Again thanks for sharing..

  26. Hi Dave it’s Laura from Indiana AGAIN! lol wow that was a great theory did you write the “diary” also in the beginning of your theory or was that really Casey’s. I noticed you got alot of crap about your theory but I often wonder how and why also the only thing is did Caylee really have to suffer that much? If she did sign her ass back up for the death penalty PLEASE!!!!

  27. My guess, Lori, is that he’s part of the state’s witness list, but there are 250+ names on it. Will his testimony even be needed with the ammunition they’re carrying to court? I don’t know if he was shipped overseas or not, or where he is, but his military service probably trumps his obligation to testify. In other words, is it all that important to take him away from defending the country? And, his interview, if one was conducted, might be kept under wraps because he is employed by the United States government. That’s just a guess, though.

  28. It kind of gave me the chills writing it, nina. I agree that Casey hated her life. So many people have terrible self-esteem problems and they can never shake them. If you take the resentment and hatred she felt inside and let it fester for a long time, it’s easier to understand why some people snap. Understand, not comprehend. There’s no excuse, but I am still working on a piece about her psyche that might help explain it.

    Thank you, nina.

  29. why don’t you become a fictional writer. Or how about beat the family to the punch and write the story of Caylee you get wealthy and donate every cent to a real charitable organization and then Casey and her very strange family won’t get rich!

  30. Dave, all my Family is from Germany, I was born in Munich and raised there till I decided to marry a Amercan Soldier over there, silly me, didn’t know any better, I was young You know. I made my Citizenship about 5 Yrs ago, I figured I better since my Boys are Americans and naturally also my Husband, I was the only one who was not.
    I still go back home whenever I have a Chance and see my Family. I tell You Dave, I could write a Book myself about my Life, it would be a Drama and a Comedy lol, definitely not boring.

  31. Hi, laura from Indiana. Funny, we are talking about Indiana today. Yes, I wrote the diary part of it, too, sort of a nod to the theory that some pages may be missing from the real thing. I think part of the reward for Casey was to make her daughter suffer for all the suffering she had to go through. In my opinion, she will never get the death penalty. It’s tough to do. There are a lot of puzzles with this case and the answers aren’t all that cut and dry.

  32. By the way since Florida has those very lovely laws where every thing is public record you can get all the info you need. I would buy your book. You are amazing at the writing the imagination.

  33. Hilde, mein bruder married a Berliner years ago when he was stationed there. he is a major in the Air Force. they have been divorced for years now, but they did have a daughter, Arianna. She’s a real cutey and is all of 19 now. I’ll have to let you know about a couple of posts I’ve written about her. I think you’ll like them.

    as far as writing about your life, I absolutely encourage it. For one thing, it’s excellent therapy and brain exercise, but you never know, someday it might get published.

  34. Laura – Me? A fictional writer? I guess you could call me that after what I wrote today, but yes, I have a couple of ideas swirling about that I may write about. Thank you for giving me more credit than I probably deserve.

  35. Again, thank you, laura. I was just trying to put pieces of the puzzle together, but I have no idea for sure. For example, I don’t know if there really is enough room under the bed, but I thought about the dogs. Casey kept her bedroom door shut. If her mother needed to get something out of the bedroom closet, she might have noticed a bag or something amiss. Under the bed and still fresh, it wouldn’t attract any attention. I think she came back the next day to retrieve the body.

  36. I must say Dave, Your Blog is very interesting.
    Sometimes You really get in a heated Conversation with some of the Bloggers and You bring up very interesting Points, always trying to be fair.
    Sometimes the Discussions getting so much in Details that I feel like I have nothing to contribuate to the existing Conversation, so I just read and learn.

  37. Hilde – you never know if you have something to contribute unless you join in. Anytime you have a question or a point you want to make, please do so. I’m glad you find my blog interesting. Thank you. I try to, that’s for sure.

  38. Furthermore Davie…. You go apologize to Hilde for the scatological reference to her beloved home state. GO! Right now. Don’t make me come in there!

  39. Indiana? My sister lived in Warsaw for a number of years. Diana from Indiana was a pretty woman, so I know what kind of beauty can come from the Midwest. Germany, too. You know, I think I just love women, no matter where they come from. Living in Florida, I’ve seen my share of beautiful women from all over, including central and south America. Don’t get me started. Oops, off topic. I’m sorry.

  40. No Dave you deserve credit it was amazing. Most of your comments are generally nice and I just think you would not be out for “blood” money. I am not saying don’t pay yourself but I believe you would pay it forward to other children in need, not pay for defense of baby killer. Something good should eventually come out of this Orlando nightmare…..

  41. How ANY mother could hurt her own child is beyond me. I have heard people say just look at her family situation. Cindy was so controlling. She was a young mother. She just wanted to live her life the way any 20 something would. Blah, blah, blah. Well you know what, the moment you become a mother your life becomes secondary to your child’s. That is when you have to put on your big girl pants and grow the f**k up. No matter home bad her home life was and no matter how young she was she completely and totally failed as a mother and imo barely passes as a human being. I would just like to say that I had a very hard home life and I became a mother at 14 and my 3 boys are all alive and doing quite well. I just want people to stop making excuses for her. I have never written on these sites before, so I am sorry if this offends anyone, I guess your story just touched a nerve with me. I think most of us know what Casey did but it is hard to see what possible happened in black and white. But it is a good theory.

  42. Well, laura, I must say I’m not in this for the money, but if I was, yes, I would definitely pay it forward. I really appreciate that you give me credit for what I wrote. Most of the comments are good. I’ve been doing this for some time now and there are some bad ones that pop up once in a while. It comes with the territory. Hopefully, you’re right. Something good will come out of it.

  43. I had my first child at 19. She is now 18 one month away from graduating high school top of her senior class. I also struggled I gave my daughters 110% and they give me the same. Age is a number if she wasn’t ready adoption is always an option. Casey was out for Casey. No one is offended but if you didn’t like what you was reading click off site. Some of us is trying to figure out what went terribly wrong.

  44. Thank you, J. I think part of Casey’s problem was that she never mentally matured. She remained that carefree teenager and felt the child was someone else’s problem. I don’t believe she always felt this way. It’s just that a pregnancy she didn’t want, giving birth and raising a child was too much to bear over time. How could a sane person kill their child and think they could get away with it? It’s as if she swept her under the carpet and never gave the repercussions a thought. Unfortunately, no one saw how unfit she was mentally and emotionally. Do I blame her parents? No, she was an adult and she made it quite clear she was in charge of her faculties. In Florida, grandparents have no rights, so Cindy could never have taken Caylee away from her or, at least, it would have been very, very difficult.

  45. I am impressed because you put a lot of thought into it and really it seems most people are after a pay check. I don’t know you but you share a lot of your time doing this so you must care about children so I hope one day you see what I believe your calling to be.

  46. One thing Cindy made clear was that Casey was not going to get an abortion. In the end, it was a mistake, but I think her religious upbringing had something to do with it. At no time would any mother think their own child could ever be capable of doing something like this. People ask all the time how George and Cindy allowed this to happen. What parent sees it coming? This woman played everybody for the fool, including all of her friends, and they probably knew her more than her parents did. I’m not about to cast blame elsewhere. Casey is 100% responsible for losing her child, no matter what the trial outcome is.

  47. Yes she is responsible. Her parents did not drop the baby off with the nanny. I can not imagine them knowing about the crime and it is said that everyone is upset with them but I know and probably most can’t imagine them lying for her it is one thing to love your child but don’t back step and change the story pray and love your daughter but don’t blow off the sweet baby who was probably tortured in the end..

  48. I know the Anthonys are still supportive of Casey and I can understand that to a certain degree. 1) She is still their daughter and sister. 2) Because of that, they will always love her. 3) They still hold out a thread of hope that in the end, she did not do it. We must understand that her attorneys are reassuring them every day that she is innocent and the facts will come out at trial. 4) It’s tough. They lost Caylee. That was a huge chunk removed from their lives. They would like to get their daughter back.

    Unfortunately for them , I don’t think it’s going to happen. I think George, as a former homicide detective, knows deep down what he’s up against. Here’s a family in turmoil before this event came down. It’s got to be terrible for them, especially if and when they finally understand all of the facts. I don’t envy them at all.

  49. Dave, I am so glad you have included how it was never
    “recognized” how mentally and emotionally unstable Casey
    had become. Thank you. Do you believe she “could” have
    been helped, if serious help had come prior to all this happening?.

  50. I have disagreed with the 100% Casey’s fault before this and still do. Children are a product of their environment…..I am not blaming her parents for the murder yet they carry some responsibility for her character. Dave, I said some…..so don’t go to fuss’in me. Cindy lies and George appears to go along with it for his own reasons. You lie, your child is going to lie more than likely. I won’t go down this trail with other thoughts as I know it irritates some.

  51. Yes, Beatrice, I do, but she would have had to recognize she had a real problem first. When she mentioned her mental instabilities to her friends, they called her later or the next day and she blew them off. I think she’s like a chameleon and a mood ring all rolled into one. She changes colors and moods on a dime, depending on who she’s interacting with. And she knows how to bull. Toward the end, no one knew what to believe any more or even who she was. It’s not easy to diagnose people like her. She blows with the wind.

  52. You know how I feel, Newbie. I blame her, not her parents. My father was a major screw up as a parent. he was a nasty alcoholic and he lied. He had a violent temper. I turned out OK and so did the rest of us. Should I give him credit for how I turned out or is it what I have inside that made me who I am? The same holds true in reverse. If I turned out bad, would it have been his fault? What if I had the best parents in the world and I still turned out rotten. Is it their fault, anyway?

    I think Casey learned how to lie on her own. She certainly didn’t learn how to kill from her mother, did she? Or… ?

  53. Dave,

    I just finished reading your story and you are an accomplished fictional writer for sure. I do think some day we will know the real story about Caylee’s death. I do not understand Casey’s demeanor. She is like OJ Simpson after killing Nicole and Ron . I think they push the horror of what they did out of their mind. You know how some people are in a bad car accident and can’t remember what happened. I think the brain goes into denial and they actually think they didn’t do it. JMO

  54. Well, that’s a mighty fine compliment, magoo2, and I surely do appreciate it. I like the sound of that… accomplished!!! Makes me almost feel impotant.

    I don’t know what it is, but yes, a lot of killers have that dazed and somewhat crazed look in their eyes, as if they’re somewhere else. I think she has a mind that distances itself. She knows what she did, but she doesn’t compute it or something.

  55. DM: What strikes me so vividly is your imagination that this child was killed in her home. I am not convinced of it just because of the nature of her parents and their routines. There was no guarantee that someone wouldn’t come home. Did Lee have a job at that time? or was he living outside the home? How far away was either George or Cindy’s place of employment? Not far enough for them to not come home for a lunch break…?? The neighbours didn’t all work either.
    No I am thinking in the car, just as I claimed before. She took Caylee in her car and before she went partying, she waited for Caylee to go to sleep, after she fell asleep she chloroformed her, did the tape thing, left her in the car, covered up in the blanket, returned and gave her the final dose of chloraform. Unfortunately we will never know if the child exphixiated or not.

    The fact that her car was backed into the driveway 2 different times, does not mean that the child was killed at home. In fact a 3rd time a vehicle was backed up into the garage but it was a pickup truck according to the neighbour who loaned her the shovel. He only saw it for an instance so I doubt that will ever come into court. He said there was a guy with brown hair. Not much to use on that one. That is the only thing that I think supports your theory. Why back up into the garage twice with her own car and once with a pickup truck. So DM maybe yours is a better theory than mine. I guess I just don’t see her taking that chance. However, I am afraid we will never know exactly what happened but it will be interesting to hear the opening remarks from the prosecution.

    Thanks for taking so much time to do that story. I think you possibly have hit a nerve here but we all do have a slightly different view. I’m sure you won’t mind mine either.
    By the way who is:
    Mark Hawkins (Army guy in California

  56. Yes Dave, and I respect your thinking.

    On the question of how you turned out, you had a good momma. LOL

  57. Dave,

    I had the same upbringing with my dad being a alcoholic with a violent temper . Myself and my sister and brother all grew up to be good people with good jobs and good parents. LOL maybe it was the parochial school I went to that scared the living daylights out of us to be GOOD. In my mind I do think it was an accidental death and that is why Cindy & George are standing by her. I think they know how little Caylee died . JMO

  58. Hi, Weezie –

    Cindy worked too far to come home for lunch, I do know that. George didn’t leave for work until 2:30 in the afternoon. Casey left at 12:40. If Casey had left the previous night, the night of the big fight, both Cindy and George would have said so to police, unless you still think they are nothing but liars. Lee did not live at home and he worked too far away. He had no point in going there for lunch. In any event, if she left that night, she would have had to kill her and why not just dispose the body and get the whole thing over with? Also, cell phone pings put her in the vicinity (meaning very close) of her parents’ house. Are you suggesting she slept in her car that night? Phone calls the next day pinged around the same location. She made a phone call from her parents’ home at 11:45 pm on the 15th and it lasted 80 minutes, until 1:05 am 16 June. This evidence places her in the house that night. All of her cell phone calls placed her exactly where the police say she went. Now, you can theorize all you want and you can disagree with my theory, but facts are facts and I already lost a reader because of a desire to prove me wrong when I know what I am talking about.

    The next door neighbor, in his interview, stated that he saw Casey back her car, not a pick up truck, into the garage on the 17th and either the 18th or 19th. Subsequent cell phone pings substantiated that and it was determined that she borrowed the shovel on the 18th. She was not living at home. Why did she go home and borrow a shovel??? She told the neighbor it was because of a bamboo root she kept tripping over. I have written about this stuff before. No mention was made about a brown haired guy or a truck or I would know about it. Someone besides Casey would be a suspect and no one else is. This is information I have verified. You are free to believe what you want, and I am free to correct you if I know it’s not factual.

    Mark Hawkins was one of her stringer boyfriends she kept in touch with, sort of like keeping spare change in your hip pocket.

  59. Sure, and my grandparents were great, too, Newbie. But it takes more than parents to screw up their children. It’s one thing to throw blame on Cindy and quite another to say George stunk too. So, blame the family. I’m saying that sometime in life, kids have got to grow up. Why lie because your mother does? See, she should have looked at it and said, I’m not going to be like that. She was an adult and as an adult, the onus is on her, or every person convicted of a crime has the right to blame their parents for everything they’ve ever done wrong. You might look at it that way, but the courts sure don’t .

  60. Magoo2 – I can’t remember how many times I would hear my father and witness his actions and say to myself, I never want to be like him. Obviously, it was inherent in me to be a good, kind person. I think it falls more like that than to place too much, if any, blame on parents. When kids get in with the wrong crowd, is it always the parents’ fault? See what I mean? I just don’t understand the mindset of people that want to blame her parents. Haven’t they ever had kids of their own? Are their children perfect? It makes no sense to me. Growing up, I learned social skills from my peers. If we learned everything from our parents, we’d forever be living in the past.

  61. I think this is so chilling as it could be so close to the truth. The truth that we will probably never know. I disagree with the post that said they did not believe that Caylee was killed at home and why would she bother to use the pool? Here’s my thought on that: It would seem more likely in the even that she was caught that Caylee got into the pool and it was an accident. I think Casey thought for the moment. No, I do not think that her searching chloroform and neck breaking months prior were any indication to a plan that was thought out and executed. I think that she was a miserable sould whose child took center stage and that infuriated her. I believe that she thought about it many times but on the day that hit happened there was no plan for after… I can’t imagine that her plan was to throw her in the woods. That I believe was done out of panic when George wanted to get in the trunk for the gas cans. I think the shovel episode was quite possibly her 1st attempt at burying Caylee and then she either thought better of it or it was too much work. I also do not believe that she took into account what the smell of decomposition would be like as she hadn’t looked that far into the future. I think at that point she was so busy coming up with a story that Caylees little body in her trunk was the least of her worries. It seems like her sociopathic behavior took over at that point and she started a new chapter of her life with the hopes of being with Tony…
    Sorry for rambling.I think you should send this to her in jail and maybe she will let you know if you are even close…lol

  62. Hi, halfpint42592 – You might be right. Some of those searches could have been nothing more than mere fantasies. I don’t know if we’ll ever know, but it sure doesn’t look like she was thinking ahead. During the police interview with the neighbor, he noted that the shovel was returned in the same condition as when he lent it to her; no new dirt or anything. Casey wore the same clothes, still clean, and she wasn’t sweating. He did notice her car was backed into the garage again, like it was on the previous day. Something unusual was going on there, because the neighbor had never seen her back into the driveway before. I have always claimed that she was lazy. I think she was too lazy to use the shovel and with a rotting body in the trunk, she didn’t know what to do so she threw it in the woods. Thank you, and please continue to share your thoughts anytime you want.

  63. Thanks to those who appreciated my description of today’s sunrise in Hawaii. Living in Hawaii inspires many to approach life with a calmness and love of nature and the land (AINA). They also have the word PONO which means to do good.
    We can learn a lot from from Hawaiian culture and ethos and how to appreciate each other and life in general, and perhaps help those, like the Anthonys, who appear to be threatened by life.

    Mahalo

  64. DM: Somewhere here I clicked on a link that gave the testimony of the neighbour. I just read it tonight before posting. I can’t find it now, but in that testimony or interview with LE, he said there was a pickup truck backed up into the garage, I believe on the 2oth. All your information about the shovel was also there.
    I am trying to back you up in a way because of the car backed up twice in the garage and the truck. I just had a different idea that’s all. You are right I have the right to my opinion even if it doesn’t sound plausible, but I don’t think any of us know for sure where the murder took place. JMO.

  65. Dave, I’m sure that crasey’s lang. is much worse but the killing part is most likely, pretty accurate 😦 crasey threw Caylee away like trash & G&C defending crasey makes my stomach turn. Don’t get me started on the new boats,cars,hotels…ect! my language gets pretty bad. lol~ I’ve already been booted from a few blogs & want to stay on the case,until the end,for Caylee’s sake & my own closure.

  66. I like your way of thinking, Ray. Balancing the Yin with the Yang and trying to live in harmony with the earth and universe. I have watched the sunrise from the Atlantic Ocean and the sunset on the Gulf of Mexico in the same day.

    I am going to meet my best friend for breakfast tomorrow. He and his wife live on the southwest coast of Florida. We have been close since childhood, so I would say we are lifelong best friends. His son recently graduated from the University of Hawaii and he moved back to the mainland, first visiting his sister in Pennsylvania and now here in Florida. His sister’s boyfriend was the captain of the men’s gymnastic team at the recent Olympics. Do a Google search on Kevin Tan and see how quickly Ever heard of Kevin Tan? No? You will comes up. That was a post I wrote about them. Anyway, not to bore you, but my friend Stewart, is moving his son to just south of Orlando in the morning and it will be great to drive down to see them. I haven’t seen Josh in many years.

    Thank you for leaving such inspirational words. I wish we could meet someday. Mahalo.

  67. No, Weezie, we don’t know where it happened, but the cell phone pings show where she was in proximity to the house. The phone calls give a glimpse into what she was doing at any given time, since she was such a phone freak. The time I referenced for the (fictional) murder coincides with a timeframe where her phone was silent, all very close to, if not inside the house. Then, boom! All the phone calls in a row, to her father, mother and friends. Then, she headed north and out of the neighborhood, on her way to Tony Lazzaro’s. I can say that what I wrote is very plausible, not necessarily the way it happened, but close enough. If you think about it, what really is the big deal exactly when she murdered the child? The fact remains that the girl is dead and her mother sits in jail. The police and prosecution are going with the 16th as the day, not the night before, because she was accounted for.

  68. Hi, prevost1580 – Oh, I’m sure her language was more salty than what I wrote. I think my scenario for the murder falls within the realm of reason, but you know, G&C do not own that boat and the hotel stays were paid for by ABC, NBC (for interview rights) and the county when the house was being searched, so I wouldn’t necessarily throw a blanket of fault and guilt on everything they’ve done. I tend to focus blame on Casey, not her parents, not that they’re saints or anything, but you must admit, they are mourning over Caylee. I know, I saw them up close and personal like.

  69. DM ; now I see where you are going. The cell phone. That just might be the right angle here. That could be the best way to set the timeline and if they have Cindy and George’s testimony of their whereabouts, that would atleast give the jurors a framework to plausability. I just wonder who was with Casey in the garage with the truck? I need to know why the pool is so important. The fact that Casey, Caylee and Cindy went swimming on the 15th, maybe the stair was not put back in its’ original place. Even though Cindy said she always puts it back in the shed, perhaps that didn’t happen this one time? And who knows if the argument didn’t start at the pool and carried on inside, leaving the ladder to be just as it was when they went swimming. Therefore there would be no reason to believe that the pool was part of the crime scene. It only becamse speculative because of what Cindy said about the ladder. Sometimes I think Cindy may not always have her timelines straight or her details either. Anyway, I just wonder how the pool became the crime scene other than Cindy’s comment. Unless they can prove there was chlorine in that blasted car????

  70. I think the green pick up or whatever it was from the neighbor’s recollection, was when the gas cans were stolen. I’m pretty sure that’s what Brian Burner saw, but it was only for a few seconds. He heard Casey’s voice and saw a brown haired guy he had never seen before. I don’t think it implicates anyone else in a cover up scheme. LE can pinpoint the day Caylee was last seen to the 16th.

    Cindy might not have put the ladder back, but it’s rather uncanny that she recognized it right away, along with the gate not being closed. Those two actions are especially unique and compelling because of her noticing it and remembering it a solid month before Caylee went missing, so I think that is substantial information and that’s why I included the pool, ladder and gate in my story. I believe the reason why Cindy did remember the specific date is because they had just returned from the nursing home in Mount Dora and that was the last time she and Caylee swam together. I don’t question her memory here because she was very responsible with the ladder and gate due to her own safety concerns over Caylee.

    I don’t believe chlorine would have to be in the car if she was dried off and he body expelled any residue before being placed in the car.

  71. At this point Dave I do disagree on Casey being an adult.
    Legally, yes. but there are many learning disabilities and along with mental and emotional instability, it is difficult for me to believe that just because she was “age” considered “adult” it does not mean that she ever got beyond a very youthful rebelleous age, as most early
    young teenagers would pass thru. normally, having born a child or not…. the “physical maturity” doesn’t always correspond with the mental, and finding herself in the sexual world where she “thought” she could be loved, no doubt some involvement with expericnced older men, is a very disturbing combination. I believe Casey’s parents loved her but Casey had become so infatuated with a lifestyle which was not just of her own
    making. There were many other players involved
    chiding a young girl on. From what I have read Casey
    had affairs, she had “boyfriends” she cavorted, but I do not find in her story that any young man had ever been in love with Casey… she certainly was used, and allowed herself to be used. but obviously not loved. We are all pretty much wired but we are not very likely wired the same way even society most often we learn a lifestyle and behavior that is acceptable. There are many murders, everyday there is someone missing, perhaps murdered. I have never heard any accused called by such hated names and remarks as Casey Anthony… I wonder why, surely not because mother killed her adorable child, because this goes on all the time… Why do you think this horrible crime has affected us so differently… than yesterdays many. If I may mention
    one more thing. I find it interesting that anytime the
    “partying” (photos of Casey and “other girls”) is shown
    and mentioned, not one derogotory word is said about the other girls in those photos as being sluts or pigs or whatever else has been used. Is it because no child of theirs has been murdered, so “their” behavior is considered ok?

  72. I read the article about Kevin. Wonderful!

    We have a lot in common Dave, and maybe some day we can meet. I have had several traveled throughout the state.
    My daughter used to live in Key West and I spent a lot of time there. You are right, the sunsets and sunrises are majestic. I scuba dived in John Pennekamp Marine Park and took pictures of reefs, fishes and the statue of Christ of the Deep. Thats when I fell in love with photography. Its getting late there on the East Coast.

    So

    As Shakespeare wrote:

    Good night sweet prince.

  73. Dave, re: your theory, it is well covered, and I know you being so close to where it all happened you surely have one up on anyone else’s thought but I will try, based on something other than cold bloodied murder. I do see it correct that Casey left home on 16th but I don’t believe she came back home that day, close but not home. Something had happened to Caylee and she did not know what to do ( not to say that what happened was not her fault) Caylee was possibly given drugs which may have accumulated and killed her. Casey could have
    been making all the calls trying to make herself get in
    contact with someone, either not reaching anyone or
    maybe hanging up before anyone answered. Caylee was dead. Casey decided to try and handle it all herself took Çaylee home, inside and prepared her for burial or ? The tape could have been put on Caylee because her little mouth was gaping open, as it often does in death. The sticker? Could have been a caring gesture
    rather than an evil, there you little s—- kind of act.
    She put Caylee in car and left. After that day of 17th the fact that TL said there was no odor in car on 23rd leads
    me to believe she put Caylee somewhere other than
    where she was found for awhile (days) then between
    23rd and 27 th when TL picked her up at Amscot she had picked Caylee up and moved her, that being when the decomposition spilled in car. By 29th George stated it was overwhelming. just on approaching car. The time of death could have happened in the car where Caylee had possibly been drugged to sleep so Casey could spend the night with TL. If she said Caylee was with someone TL would not have bothered to look in car. I could add more of my thoughts but undoubtedly not much consideration is given in anything other than cold bloodied murder. If Casey dragged and struggled to get Caylee out of swimming pool, wouldn’t there have been some skin DNA on edge of pool or ladder. There were no fingerprints on Tape, so what do you think she did, put on gloves before touching anything? Can’t see putting Caylee under bed because, unless there was a deadbolt on Casey’s bedroom there is no doubt in my mind that her parents would have entered that bedroom from time to time, for one acceptable reason or another. To have brouht Caylee home, “cleaned her up and dried her off” then killed her, threw her in pool, then dried her off again, etc. doesn’t seem likely to me. Casey’s demeanor, if calm, cool and unmoved, would probably be a drugged condition…. I have asked before about possible use of Ecstacy in drugging Caylee and maybe she died from its use…. Dave please explain what the phone call to TL the night before leaving home and also his call back to her around 3: AM. Did TL make statement re: those calls? Caseys “lies”
    were not those of a pre-planned cold bloodied murderer.
    They are more like “I didn’t mean it” 10-12 year olds
    kind of concoction of lies. Casey has been in a dillusional, this didn’t happen state of mind ever since. Caylee is dead. I believe Casey was and is as ill as Andrea Yates. Andrea Yates was on medication. Casey apparently was not on helpful drugs, instead was indulging in hard drugs and alcohol. I do not believe
    Casey was lazy, instead her body and brain were absorbed by drugs, alcohol and partying just as did
    her friends who apparently were able to handle it all, without a breakdown.

  74. Beatrice: With all due respect, I disagree that Casey had learning disabilities and that she should not be considered an adult. Casey is not dumb by any means. What I believe is that Casey has never been taught action and consequence. She never had to be held accountable for anything in her life. We saw that when she lied about not graduating. She was told the prior year that she was not going to meet the criteria and yet never said a word to her parents. Who did Cindy blame for that? The school, not Casey. She lied to them about being pregnant for 7 months, whose fault was that ? Cindy’s brother for blurting it out. She stole money from her grandmother? Her punishment? None, Cindy again came to the rescue and told the grandmother that she herself will pay her back.
    Casey does notbelieve that she will be held accountable for this crime and I truly think that she really believes she will walk out of the jail in October and go on and though nothing happened.
    As far as no man ever being inlove with Casey, remember she was engaged to Jesse Grund. The reason for her breaking up with him? She believed that he loved Caylee more than her… That speaks volumes.

  75. I don’t think Casey learned to lie on her own Dave. Cindy Anthony has let her get away with lying all of her life. She heard her Mother lie for her about her pregnancy to her own relatives. Cindy had to have known that she did not have a job or a nanny since she had never seen a paystub or met a nanny or even spoke to one in all those years. George lied to Cindy about the scam he was involved in. I think this was an acceptable behavior in this family and she learned it from her parents.

  76. I have to run out for a few hours, but I will be back to respond in more detail. Until then, I just wonder, if Casey is not really an adult, should she be charged as one? If George and Cindy are 100% responsible for her and her lies, why aren’t they on trial instead? You people seem to be blaming them more than her. What happens if your father murders his brother? Is he responsible for you turning out to be a good person? He should be, according to you, because he’s responsible no matter how you turn out.

  77. One more thing before I go. My father has been known to be a liar. I am as honest as they come. Why? I should have learned from my father. Perhaps, I learned on my own because I have my own brain and sense of direction.

    And keep this in mind: If your adult child ever gets as much as a speeding ticket, it is your fault.

  78. Hey Dave it’s Laura in Indiana, I think everyone wants to blame parents still because they are always defending Casey. Here’s what I think… She did it parents know she did it but they don’t want her to get in trouble, but if she doesn’t get n trouble how long before her next child gets hurt. I love my daughter too but if she murdered her child I would want her to own up to it and get help. I think a lot of people would move on past this if they would just come out and say our daughter did this and we are trying to get her help instead it was pizza, Casey was the best mom in the world, blah, blah,blah. I realize they aren’t suppose to because of Bozo (attorney) but at some point they could say we agree with police and we are trying to get Casey help. Andrea Yates didn’t blame a nanny she owned got help and is becoming a productive member of society. The lies continuing to go on is what is angering mo0st!

  79. We all have traits attributed directly to our parents. Good or bad, even if we don’t want to admit it. It’s in the genes.

  80. Weezie,

    I did read about a pick-up truck in the driveway the day Casey borrowed the shovel. I believe it was in the document of the neighbor she borrowed the shovel from. I have seen Lee driving a pickup truck . Maybe he stopped in to visit the day she was there.

  81. Diana I believe that about traits I just think everyone should start telling the truth and then maybe everyone would stop wanting to hear about Casey. I think all the lies covering up and straight out ignorance has everyone on the seat of their chairs…..

  82. When Casey said she dropped Caylee off at the nannys (at the bottom steps) a lie? She was smart enough to know that you just don’t drop your child off without the babysitter right there to get her. Did she leave Caylee all alone at the bottom of the stairs and take off without her and come back and find someone ran over her ? Maybe Casey accidently ran over her . I wonder if the tires were ever checked for skin fragments. It’s possible that is the reason she said she ran over two squirrils.

  83. WHAT NANNY? I hope you don’t believe nanny theory since they never found one, Casey never contacted her on cell phone thru calls or text messaging? No one ever met nanny either family or friends.

  84. I didn’t say there was a nanny. Casey said there was a nanny. SHE said to the LE that she dropped Caylee off at Zenida’s apt. I wonder what ever happened to the other SIM card that Casey used for her cell phone. She said she lost it. hmmmmm

  85. Beatrice – (from your 11:10 pm comment from last night.) Casey did not openly display any mental or emotional instability. How come you are putting her under a microscope now and all of a sudden, diagnose her? Even if she was (is) emotionally immature, does that mean that every person looked at that way will kill their child? You complicate the simple and simplify the complicated.

    Now, suddenly, you know no man ever loved her. Did you ask Jesse Grund, her one-time fiance about that or are you just guessing?

    I’ll give you credit for observing that none of the other dancing girls have been discussed, but they are not in jail, they are not mothers, and they do not stand accused of murder. Why should we consider them? Should we put the whole world on trial?

  86. Ray – Yes, my princess, that would be nice if we could meet one day. Thank you for your critique of the Kevin Tan post. He was big news during the Olympics.

    Key West is great because you see the sun coming and going without having to drive. It’s a great place, but I don’t think I’d like to live there. Too much partying for me these days. I love the water, though.

    I’d like to see some of your photography some time. Maybe, you could post some here if you want. Your decision, though. I’m not going to pressure you or anything. Anyway, it’s always a pleasure when you drop in.

  87. Laura,

    I don’t think Casey will ever have another child unless she can get preggie thru the bars of the jailhouse . What man in his right mind would even bother with her if she would be released from prison. Honestly I don’t think she wouldn’t have many friends to hang out with either. But then again it didn’t seem to bother OJ when he was aquitted. He had some buddies he golfed with and a new girlfriend and the good life for a while. I always wondered if his children knew what he did to their mother?

  88. Ray – I’m glad you enjoyed the post on Kevin Tan. He was pretty big during the Olympics and I got thousands of hits after I wrote it.

    One of the best thing about the keys is the ability to watch sunrises and sunsets from your house. No need to drive from coast to coast. I’ll have to look up that park, though. If you ever want to showcase any of your photography here, please be my guest. I always enjoy your visits and I would like it if we could meet sometime. Drop my anytime you want, my princess.

  89. The problem with your theory, Beatrice, is that Casey is pleading innocent, meaning she had nothing to do with Caylee’s death. In the meantime, she sits in jail charged with first-degree murder. Do you see what doesn’t quite compute with your accidental death theory? But wait! There’s more. She goes through this elaborate burial procedure, including the tape and heart, and the randomly tosses the bag into the woods, like trash.

    Why would there be DNA on the pool? Better yet, why wouldn’t there be? After all, that is where she swam almost every day. Besides, the police didn’t even examine the pool for more than a month after she disappeared. You don’t think it rains here in Florida?

    You know, beatrice, I don’t know where you hear things sometimes. All of her friends denied she did any hard drugs and stated that she drank little alcohol. She smoked a little more pot after meeting TL, that’s all. Now, you accuse her of absorbing hard drugs and alcohol. You surprise me at times. Andrea Yates was not like Casey. You cannot compare the two just because they both performed filicide.

  90. Laura – As I told Beatrice, you cannot compare Andrea Yates with Casey. If you do, then why not compare Ted Bundy with Susan Smith? No murders are identical. You people have to stop analyzing this murder too much. You proffer advice on what her parents should have done and you seem to know exactly how you would react under the same circumstances. Well, gosh by golly, I hope it never happens to you. If you had to go through the same things as the Anthonys, I’d just love to see you squirm and tell the world what a murderous kid you’ve got. Don’t forget to blame yourself for it.

  91. So, Diana, from now on, I expect you to take full responsibility for every action undertaken by all of your children. If any one of them is caught in a lie, it is 100%, beyond a shadow of doubt, your fault. Period. If one of them is involved in a car accident, you never taught them how to drive properly.

    How late in life do you expect parents to take the blame? 70 year old man murders wife, says the headline. Yes, but I can directly attribute my actions to my 95 year old mother, your honor, he responds.

  92. You know what is totally bizarre here? Cindy Anthony stopped talking on 10 December. Here we are, near the end of March and you people are doing a hell of a lot more bitching than she ever did. Still. And it doesn’t stop. I’ve heard more lies and asinine rumors come out of you, the public, than what came out of the Anthonys’ mouths combined.

  93. I must say Dave, the “under the bed” was in my mind as I went to bed. The thought that Casey had “stashed” the body in the house…..whoa.

    I wonder how any person ever copes with such tragedy. While some of us wonder what “went wrong”, I am sure there is great compassion for this family.

    Your site is where we can question and be given another thought.

  94. Magoo2 – At least you are asking questions instead of making groundless accusations. Casey never went to the apartments. She never went to Blanchard Park that day, either. Cell phone ping records prove that, so jut put that out of your mind. there was no nanny and no phone records of calls or text messages whatsoever. The medical examiner stated that there was no damage to the skeletal remains. Therefore, she could not have run over Caylee at all. No broken bones. No cracked ribs. To marks whatsoever. Period.

  95. I hope you didn’t have to look under your bed last night, Newbie. Remember, my story is just that: a story. Yes, everyone can come here to discuss anything. I just wish more people had at least some compassion for the Anthonys. I mean they act as if theres grandparents (and Lee) never loved the little girl and are not mourning her death. That is quite disturbing to me, that so called Christians could hate this much.

  96. LOL. ……I did chuckle as I had a flashback of when I checked under my bed for wolves…..lol
    Or was it tigers?

    Having basically just kept to your blog, I think the hate mongers have gone elsewhere. To me, people here are going thru more of “how could this happen” than actual nastiness. It took you awhile to establish the “positive atmosphere” yet it is there although the subject is negative.

    I have to wonder if yours is the way a “male looks at things” and questioning what went wrong in the family is a “female thing.”

    I suppose I should get ready to duck….as I understand today’s society, it is not cool to indicate different thinking based on gender. lol

  97. DM: The fact the family has not visited Casey speaks volumes to me. I think they know she did it, are trying to come to terms with that, but I think they will stand by her all the way. I know you are going to tell me that they don’t go because of their visits being recorded. Or that Biaz has asked them not to go to the jail. If they wanted to, they would go no matter the consequences of someone else viewing it. If I was a parent I would go just to see Casey on video as they talk about sweet nothings for all I care. I just am dumbfounded why they haven’t even show up, nor Lee. Please….. do not lecture me on this queerie.

    I have also heard that the Anthony’s are splitting up. Is that true????? This was mentioned on HLN. If it were, that might explain why they haven’t been to the jail. George will be testifying for the Prosecution, which MAY mean Cindy would testify for the Defence.
    Any thoughts on this??? Anyone??

  98. Dave did not compare the two I said Andre owned up to what she did. As far as the A’s go all I said was I think people want them to admit they know their daughter did this. I feel very sorry for them I can not imagine the pain nor do I ever want to know. I pray my kids do the right thing everyday. If they don’t I won’t lie for them. Two wrongs don’t make it right. But don’t imply that I don’t feel compassion because I do….,. I am sure they had no idea what their daughter was capable of I am positive had they have known they would have protected her.

  99. Dave,

    I do respect your opinion but in my opinion G&C failed Caylee. It started a long time ago but was confirmed the day at the tow truck yard when the cover up for the adult child began. Then there was/is Caylee’s so called memorial.

    G&C failed Caylee too- I have zero sympathy for them. Maybe someday they will face the truth & help others. This would “honor” Caylee but methinks the A’s have too much pride & selfishness for this “truth”.

  100. You know, Newbie, you may be on to something. I’ve always noticed that mothers tend to be overly protective of their children and fathers see it a little more differently, like, fend for yourself, learn to stand tall. The irony here seems to be the complete reversal when it comes to the Anthonys. I still think it is Casey’s fault and not her parents, so stand tall, fend for yourself still holds true. Plenty of the women, though, have done an about face. Witness the comments on this post. Read all the women who turn the other cheek and spit on the Anthonys. Hell, they downright make a man look more motherly, more compassionate.

  101. p.s Dave!

    I’m a Christian* Jesus said ” I come with a sword” he didn’t or does not recommend ignoring the big,fat elephant in the room. He also repeatedly told or tells us * The truth will set you free* The healing process always begins when *I* can be honest . Maybe you & others think that is self righteous of me but my in-laws & so many others have walked in the A’s shoes & I admire their courage,integrity & honesty. The bible is what I go by and it’s pretty clear about murder,lying and especially, brutally honest about hurting the innocent, children & animals.

    In a nutshell, in my own family, my parents who are following this case too, have said, the buck stopswith the kids. Crasey & the rest of us on here are adults and we are responsible for our actions. BTW! The bible does not recognize mental disorders. It says this is our own personal demon or demons and we are saved by God,only!

    Blessings!

  102. No lecture, Weezie, but did you ever consider that Casey might not want visits from her parents? Suppose they go and Casey refuses to see them? The only lecture you’re going to get from me is this: It’s a 2-way street.

    The Anthonys have stated that they are not going to get divorced. You can choose to believe them or CNN. It makes no difference to me and it has nothing to do with the trial, does it? The prosecution is calling George and Cindy to the stand. The state issued subpoenas. Of course, once they take the stand, the defense can cross examine.

  103. Dave, It was just all another thought!
    Doesn’t any one ever think ” what if she did not do it?”
    I am not debating Dave, because I am well aware you know facts! The courts have not determined her a cold bloodied killer, yet! A lot of the public has! I was trying to reason with cause for a young woman to do such an act, before I join in the hanging. Why would that surprise you about me. Is it a sin to look at all sides, believe me, I have not neglected the most prevailing probability, but I am not ready to do all the nasty when there is any possibility that Casey, IN SOME WAY……. may be just as disturbed as AY… Do you know absolutely, without a doubt that she is not?? … I have not read anywhere that she has been determined as “normal” as you, or anyone else, evaluated as normal. You opened to thoughts of other people on this. No two are alike, are they? If they are are supposed to be then, my apology! I did not say a murder did not happen! .. And, I’m pretty sure that you yourself stated about your own theory that it was “just a theory”, so mine is off course. …It is not one laid down to me by Almighty God. I fully accept your facts, Dave, but does it benefit anyone, even Caylee for someone like me to just fall into line and not allow myself to think of possible differences. Did I “die hard” accuse someone of something? I do not believe so, was not my intention. PS, even just marijuana CAN help some people to feel and believe that everything they are doing is comfortable and ok, can’t it? It is a beautiful day here today, so I am going to go look for one of those beautiful scenes you talked about yesterday and hope you are feeling really well and enjoying one too. Thank you

  104. But you see, Laura, I don’t think the Anthonys care what the public thinks. Why should they? You aren’t going to like them anyway. This is the same public that has been trashing them for so long, with not one ounce of sympathy. You expect them to satisfy you? The only thing they need to satisfy is the court, and I think they are holding onto that one strand of hope that Casey didn’t do it, and you know something? There’s this thing called “innocent until proven guilty” in America. By the way, just what have they said since the body was found that aggravates everyone so much? Cindy has been pretty zippered up. Who’s wrong for holding a grudge for 3.5 months? You people confuse today with before anyone was officially declared dead. You blame Cindy for Casey’s mistakes, yet you never spent one second with them. Who is doing the judging here? Strickland or the mob mentality public?

    Don’t get mad at me. It’s just the way I see it. Who ever said life is fair was wrong. dead wrong.

  105. And you know something, prevost1580? The Anthonys have zero sympathy for you. Unfortunately, you know more about how they failed Casey a long time ago than they do. That’s funny, because you have never once set foot in their house. How come you know so much? Law enforcement isn’t even saying that. Just couch mommies with a TV degree in psychology. You fail to realize that Caylee was not missing when that car smelled of death. Were they frightened? Of course they were. But not to you. To you, they are pitiful human beings and that’s just so sad. Just my opinion. Feel free to fire back.

  106. I have a Bible, I do not promote any “religion” and I am not self-righteous flitzzy, but I do know enough that it is ALSO written “Hate the Sin” and “Not the Sinner” and as far as I am concerned NOT hating does not mean… that one who harms… will not get due punishment.

  107. I agree life is not fair. I said I think the people blogging would feel better if they admitted it… I personally feel sorry for them, I lost twins and that was hard and I never got to meet them in away I feel sorry for Casey because she will never know what she had. I don’t blame the A’s Casey is a legal adult, and regardless of that since she is innocent until proven guilty I guess the nanny did it….

  108. DM; The idea of the Anthony’s splitting came out the other day, I think Thursday, so it could very well be just a rumour. And it might be true enough that Casey has forbidden her parents from visiting her, and you know she loves her control, so you may be right about that one. Why wouldn’t she want to make them suffer. She tried it by killing Caylee, but you know it didn’t quite work, because they stood strong as a family and gave that little girl a very humane and beautiful memorial, that Casey was downright against. Casey was also appealing to her parents not to cremate Caylee’s remains. So 2 strikes and you get Casey stomping her feet, telling Biaz, (“no I never want to see them again”). That may very well be, but isn’t it strange that there is no communications. Rumour has it they talk through the Lawyer. I think Casey has transferred all her energy into Biaz and also the rest of the team. NEW MEAT to bambuzzle. That is what she gets off on. She no longer can do that with Lee, Cindy or George. It is ponderous. ….. How long with George and Cindy put up with this? Anyone can flip sides at anytime down the road.

  109. I read all the Comments very carefully and must say they are interesting even if some of them have a completely different Opinion how and why this Tragedy has happened.
    We won’t know what happened till the Trial.
    We might never find out how Caylee was murdered.
    Myself I don’t believe it was an Accident, but that is just my Opinion.
    Also, I agree with Dave, no Matter what the Circumstances on how You were raised, ultimately the Choice will be Yours what Decisions You will make in Your Life as an Adult.
    It is always easier to blame everything on someone else,especially Your Parents.
    Yes ,the Way You grow up can have an Influence
    on Your Life, good or bad.
    Myself I had plenty Reasons to blame my Upbringing on some of my Choices I made in
    Life, which were less than desirable at times and I did blame my Parents for a long time.
    After carefully looking at myself, I finally figured it out, it was up to me to make some Changes and quit blaming my Parents.
    They weren’t perfect granted, but they tried to do their Best.
    Long Story short, it is up to us what we become in Life and only we are responsible for our Decisions and our Life.
    Casey Anthony is responsible for her own Actions, not her Parents.
    As for the Pictures of Casey partying, I must admit I have partied in my time and I am sure there were People wouldn’t have approved of what I have done.
    The Difference however is , I did it before I had my Children. There is a time and Place for everything.
    In Casey’s Case the Reason People are so appalled by those Pictures is, she was a Mother with a two Year Old Child on some of those newer Pictures and her Child was missing.
    All the older Pictures before Caylee was born
    I feel really shouldn’t be important.
    That is just my Opinion I don’t expect anyone to agree with me.

  110. So, prevost1580, you are a Christian. That’s interesting that you never heard of forgiveness and turning the other cheek. This is what I call selective Christianity. You get to pick and choose what aspects you like. When the New Testament preaches forgiveness, you revert to the Old and cry, “An eye for an eye!” Yet, you blame the parents. Tell me, where in the Bible does it say you can do that? Where is that commandment that says, “Thou shalt blame the mother and father for crimes committed by their offspring?”

  111. You’re right, Beatrice. She is innocent until proven guilty, and so are her parents, yet for people never going to trial for anything, they sure are guilty of terrible things. I have not read anywhere that Casey has been determined to be “normal.” However, I think each person makes their own determination of what’s normal. In Massachusetts, gays can marry. In Florida, they can’t. There is no one description of normal. I think you really are talking about sanity. Nonetheless, I have not heard of any reports that have deemed her not normal, or insane, either.

    I think you should get outside, since it’s such a beautiful day. I just heard the 2 sonic booms as the shuttle passed overhead, minutes before it landed.

  112. Casey will get her just due one day, Weezie. It’s not a rumor about the family communicating through Baez. All involved parties have said so. They might also correspond through mail. Casey has not expressed any interest in visits by her parents or anyone else. It may be from advise from her lawyer. Remember when half the stupid world thought Casey was communicating in code with Lee? That’s how out of hand this case has become. Remember? I wrote an article ripping that theory apart with nothing more than factual information. People still believe it’s true. Odd.

    By the way, tomorrow’s Anthony post will be a lot friendlier.

  113. Weezie….

    I have wondered from the beginning if Baez put the clamps on Casey. To me, the smartest thing is to keep Casey’s mouth shut !! Baez controls now and in no way is going to want family visiting….Casey might break-down……I know that is a far-leap on Casey breaking down and admitting she killed her daughter but if I were her attorney, she wouldn’t see anyone.

  114. I am so sorry you lost twins, laura. That is a very sad thing. You have my sympathy.

    As far as Casey being innocent until proven guilty, yes, that’s true, but I think we all sort of know what the outcome of the trial will be. I, for one, can’t wait to hear the nanny theory.

  115. You’re right, Hilde. No one knows what that family was like 20 years ago. All of these closed-minded people have become world authorities on this family from 6 months in front of the very biased press. Before this happened, they could have been just like any other American family, filled with the same types of problems. George certainly got along with his neighbors. Are they rotten, too? Is all of Orlando on trial here? All of these outsiders so willing and ready to condemn and the really sick thing is that they have the audacity to call themselves very good Christians. I went to the memorial at the church. I saw compassionate Christians there, all willing to give the Anthonys an open hand and a willing heart. Where are these Christians out there in the world? They come to condemn, not heal.

    Thank you, your opinion was very much appreciated.

  116. Wow….Baez’s contact and “handling” of the parents who are going to be testifying……..we don’t even want to go there.

  117. Laura; Such a terrible tragedy to loose not one but two children. I’m sure your story is a sad one, but I would like to say how sorry I am for your loss. I hope life has given you a new perspective and that God has granted you a new beginning.

    Newbie; I guess you might as well be her Lawyer, cause she isn’t seeing anyone that the public is aware of.

    I wonder if there is some deal made that the family can visit her without the recordings, due to the high profile of the case. Remember when O.J. was in court and the Rev. ( past football player), visited O.J. There were no tapes of that or atleast none that got released. Ok you can say that is privy due to the nature of the cloth, but he also had lots of visitors and nonone say any tapes of that! I kind of think that those tapes were illegally let out. Ok Fla. Sunshine Law? Does that make visitation to prisoners a right to tape and deliver to the public? I believe that should be privledged but who am I? A law abiding citizen who would do anything the right way to avoid JAIL.

    DM: Looking forward to yet another one of your compelling writeups. Do you think Detwill will come back? I thought she was a lot tougher than that? I liked her spunk and her slant on things. It always made for good banter between the two of you. It just shows you how electric this topic still is. And yes, how can people think that a code would be set up between sister and brother, when they both knew that their conversations were being taped.

    Hey did you hear that Roy Kronk’s sister works in the Jail that Casey is in? I thought that was kind of interesting. Pedia was doing another Daisy chain on NG last night. Wow he sure has a wild side to him.

  118. Well Dave, you have a right to YOUR opinion. My grandfathers & family have paid for it. You seem to have a big ( hiding behind a keyboard & blogging ) ego who sympathizes with what is WRONG with America. How sad & disturbing. And so these tradgedies keep happening but lets blame the victim(s). Yes! that’s been working so well.

    I do not want any of your kool aide. There are plenty of other blogs that favor the victim(s) and their rights.

  119. Weezie – I think the recorded meetings stem from the Sunshine Law. As far as I know, no one but her lawyers have seen her in jail. Her parents have seen her at the hearings, but there’s been no verbal communicating. Just codes. Just kidding.

    Tomorrow’s story is definitely more upbeat. My best friend came into town this morning with his son, who is moving just south of the airport, and I took them over to see the Anthony house, the boat and the memorial on Suburban Drive. It’s about that, nothing more.

    I’d rather not discuss anyone no longer commenting. The one you mentioned is always welcome here.

  120. You are a joke, prevost1580, to twist this conversation into some weird thought that anyone here is blaming the victim. You are blaming the victim. You think the Anthonys aren’t suffering? What a Christian. If this is your brand of Christianity, I don’t want it. I’ll stick to forgiveness.

    Tell me. Do you handle snakes in church?

  121. Prevost1580; Looks like you decided to prowl last night around 9pm., looking for some action. It appears that you didn’t stay long, and you have admitted to being booted off other websites. I think you speak with fork tongue. If anything DM is trying to put together timeline of events, regarding the murder of Caylee. He has also been very fair with analyizing her family, not putting the blame on the parents, but on the sinner. Granted Casey has not been proven guility but a trial will see to that. I agree about christian behaviour and not throwing the stone. Unless you can prove that Cindy or George, for that matter Lee; has anything to do with this henious crime, I would suggest you leave them out of it. Yes be mad that they are supporting her but throwing stones at the Anthony’s won’t change anything except your own lack of tolerance and your need to be a Christian. J

    Just food for thought.

  122. I just don’t understand the logic of people sometimes, Weezie. Where they think they know it all, they seem to know the least. Where they brag about their good Christian values, they act so unchristian like. I don’t know what they expect to do here. They come in spewing hatred for the whole family and they seem to focus on the parents, not the accused. These are people with very small brains or something. Everything has to be their way, the “Christian” way, or they pout and run away. That shows how distorted their thinking is: It’s my way or the highway. I never threw anyone out of here. They leave because I don’t agree with what they have to say. I argue it and they run. Fine. I stand my ground.

    I wasn’t aware prevost0000 has been thrown off other sites. Why am I not surprised? She won’t come back. Trust me. I struck a nerve with her distorted religious beliefs.

  123. Provost, God sure has a HELL of a lot of Demons to deal with! I wonder if there is not a “demon” that shows itself as “mental illness” Demons can be very “deceiving” being in, or coming into us in many many different shapes and forms. How about “hate” wouldn’t that be demon driven. WITHOUT LOVE, caring, and compassion (which is what “Yahshua” and Dave Knechels, are made up of) we can be very suseptible to being demon inhabited. YES WE CAN! AMERICA! I believe Dave writes about this case through his hearts fight from pain for what happened to this or any other helpless and innocent tiny victim. I know, because I
    read his discription of having a little girls beautiful
    eyes look up at him and her tiny arms hug around his neck. Unca Da!

  124. Take a good look at the Anthony house and lovely things that Caylee had. I am sure she never had to go without because her grandparents made sure she had everything plus more. I can tell by the videos how much they love Caylee , you can see it on their faces. They did their best for Casey and Caylee. Geeze they even paid for Casey’s car, cell phone, most likely her clothes, and everything else she had. They had problems in their home just like any other family. Most people don’t tell ya what kind of dysfuction in their home. Casey was lazy , spoiled, and a brat I am sure. Stop blaming the Anthonys for what Casey did or didn’t do. It’s an unfortunate situation for this family and being a grandmother I can feel the hurt they must be going through. The only thing that can ease their sorrow is their faith and the little anglel watching over them.

  125. That is so true, Beatrice. I have a friend who was quite a problem when he was young. He stole things, broke into businesses and wrecked a few of his parent’s cars when he was too young to drive. His parents were great people! Both deceased, I had the utmost respect for them and they were bastions of the community. Were they to blame for his actions? Of course not. They did everything. they sent him to private schools. they sent him to military schools. In the end, it was the US Army that straightened him out, although I do believe he would have outgrown his ways. In the end, it was his choice and his own driven mindset that produced the great guy that he’s been for so many years. He did it. What if he never ended up on the high road? It’s people like some of the odd commenters here who would blame his parents. I just don’t get it. They’re as disturbed as michellefrommadison. Yikes!

    Good old Jessie. She was so precious then. Not that she isn’t today. She’s just not so little any more.

  126. Just an idea. If I had the time, and my degree already, I’d start fighting to make legislature in all states allow grandparents laws (in fact I’m getting my education to work in this area of law). What I mean by grandparents laws is that a grandparent could sue in family court for full custody of their grandchildren. Not in juvenile court, but family court.

    I am aware of a huge legal tangle that involves most family courts leaning towards making money over preserving peace for the child. However, we are voters and the more we get involved in changing that, the better the chances for the more “fit” of the child’s relatives caring for the child.

    I believe with all my heart that if grandparents laws were put in place in more states that we would see much less murder and mayhem on the part of the mother or father of a child.

    Again, just my two cents.

    H.H.

  127. Bullseye, magoo2! When I came back from the memorial, I related my experience at that church. Above the pulpit, on the back wall, was a giant video screen. We saw hundreds of photos and videos that have not been made public. I can tell you, that was one special, happy, spoiled baby. That’s a fact. And these idiots come in here crapping all over them. They make me sick. To think there are monsters in our country that feel so much hatred is disgusting. They will never find a home on my website.

  128. I can see that, H.H., but only under very extreme circumstances. For one thing, to pit grandparents against their children to take a child away would render the family destroyed. Mother would hate daughter, etc., etc., and there are other factors to ponder. What if both the maternal and paternal grandparents get in on the act? Who gets the grandchildren? Wouldn’t the court be saying, ipso facto, that one set of grandparents aren’t good enough? I wonder if all this familial turmoil would destroy the poor kid’s sense of destiny, as he watches his family turn love to hate and he’s the cause, so he thinks. I think there are laws against too much power for good reasons. Maybe, it was King Solomon’s idea.

    A good thought, by the way, and I’ve wondered about Caylee had the laws been different.

  129. Dave,
    You actually made me chuckle with your response to me. Not sure if you are being a comedian or a smart a$$, or maybe a little of both. But I like your mind. Nevertheless, I know what you are saying about “blaming parents” but since I have managed to raise 3 fine upstanding sons, all college educated with professional careers, should I not feel proud of the job I have done in raising them? Would they be as successful if I were not there sacrificing the last 20+ years of my life teaching them right from wrong? Teaching them to respect authority figures and not to lie , cheat and steal? Cindy Anthony has not been a good parent in that regard as I see it.

  130. Diana,

    I honestly don’t think that the Anthonys did teach Casey how to steal and lie. Like I said before You do the best you can for your children and hopefully they turn out to be upstanding like your sons. BUT there are some children who turn out to be a bad seed. I don’t have another word for it, maybe Dave does , but I am sure you know what I mean. I think the wiring in the brain dosen’t work right when you have people who are murderers. Casey knew right from wrong I am sure she was taught that at home . Who the hell knows what goes on in peoples minds when something like this happens. PMS or maybe she had Post Partum depression that was never treated. I just don’t know but it’s a thought. IMO

  131. Well, Diana, I give parents lots of credit, and I’m sure you are proud of your family – and rightfully so – but I think if a human is raised by wolves, that person will grow up to be what it will be. That’s what helps make up our individual souls. I am not my mother. I am not my father. I am me. Of course, parents play a major role, but what about teens? Some children are raised as properly and as morally as possible, and the child joins up with the wrong crowd. Is it the parents’ fault? I am not God. I cannot judge that. I cannot sit here in judgment of the Anthony family.

    I have been watching this whole thing unfold right here, in my home town. What amazes us is how much the outside world is so agog over it. We go on about our daily business while total strangers act as if they grew up next door to the Anthonys. I find it totally appalling that people have micro-judged these people and have deemed them unfit as human beings. You don’t know anything about this family. Have you ever dined with them? Have you even breathed the same air? That is what disturbs me. Total strangers have decided to play God. You take a few months of Cindy’s rantings and you accuse the family of rotten, rotten sh*t. I am 56 years old and I must say that in my entire life, I have never seen hungry mongrels like the people that come after this family, waiting and waiting and salivating and licking their chops until they see death and destruction rein in on them. It is subhuman.

    I am a man of passion and forgiveness. No, I am not trying to grant absolution to Casey Anthony. All I ask is that people grow up and treat the family with dignity. They lost their grandchild to one of the most heinous of crimes and you sit there waiting to lurch. I am afraid compassion is no longer with us.

    Let God show mercy upon these people because it surely is not going to come from the likes of the hysterical public.

    Let me ask you a very reasonable question and I think it merits an answer. Lee is not a failure. Lee committed no crime. Are his parents responsible for him or is it just Casey?

  132. Dave, I have been busy and not been posting any, I have taken today to read and catch up. My post on the other blog on March 21 seems to fit this blog more than any. My question is you know I am not very computer savvy can you put my post on this site. If not I can write it again, only if you can work magic it would save me alot of time. I have read all the posts and I am sitting here shaking my head. The comparison between mothers and fathers is true to some degree, but in my case I was both mother and father, and I chose to do the right thing and allow my son to pay for his actions, has it been easy to watch him fall NO, is it teaching him to be responsible for his actions..I hope and hope is all I can do. I refuse to bail him out anymore, do I love him any less..NO. It breaks my heart to see him struggle through finding his adulthood, but there comes a time that we as parents have to make a choice in what we know is best for our adult children even though they totally disagree, and it takes a very strong-willed parent to do it.. mother or father. Believe me it was easier on my heart to rescue him and keep him safe, but I was contributing to his bad decisions. I still to this day have a few problems with him the only difference now is he knows that mamma will not make it all better. He blames me alot for the problems that he has brought upon himself but that is fine, I know I was in no way perfect but I did the best I could do, children learn this from society people are so blindsided and casting blame at how these children are brought up that it only makes it harder for us parents that choose to take the ‘TOUGH LOVE’ path. After reading some of these crazy posts I am more convinced than ever that we are damned if we do and damed if we don’t. I have to think that the Anthony’s are much smarter than most of the people throwing stones, that they will remain united and somehow find their way through this nightmare. To the christian on here that seems to know the bible inside and out remember the commandments….’honor thy father and mother’. Thanks for letting me vent.

  133. To answer your question on is Lee a failure, no he is working has a healthy relationship and is IMO the glue to this family right now. When you see a 2 year old in public behaving badly using obsene language, acting dirty towards the opposite sex, then yes I would cast the blame on the parents because at the tender age of 2 the parents is basically all that the child has had to learn from. A 22 year old brat is different over the years children grow and have many people as teachers, friends, sunday school teachers that have come into their lives and taught them other behaviors. Their brains also have matured and they somewhere in liife have encounted good productive people and unless they are severly mentally retarded they have become aware that we have to live by certain laws. Some things are acceptable and other’s are not, it then becomes their actions that they themselves are responsible for. When adult children make bad choices it is to easy for them to blame their parents, who wants to accept the fact that they screwed up. Society in general pays a big role in this behavior because they to blame the way they were raised. No one knows with the acception of my close family and friends what goes on in my house and how I raised my children, and I have yet to hear from any family members, close friends, even neighbors of the Anthony’s that they were BAD parents. I will not cast blame on them Casey killed Caylee and she knew right from wrong. So what if she went through or seen ugly things from her parents as she was growing up. She was 22 years old when this happened if things were as bad as the public seems it to be, why did she choose to stay in the home? If C&G were such bad parents why didn’t she move herself and Caylee out, I think I know why, things were not nor were they ever as bad as the public has made it out to be. I refuse to cast stones at them, I have never walked a mile in their shoes nor have I ever met and got to know them. I may not have a college degree and may not be the smartest person in the world but I hope and pray that I am not so close-minded that I would have any right to judge their parenting skills.

  134. Hi Dave

    I enjoy reading your blog. I don’t think I’ve commented here before, but I feel so strongly about this, I’m going to now.

    I am not a George and Cindy fan, and no I don’t know them personally. I can, however, relate to them. I have raised 3 sons–the last 2 in a very different way than the 1st. Son #1 was raised in a manner that indulged his every whim for reasons I won’t go into here. He was 17 before we realized that a lot of his problems were the result of our giving in, covering up, and supporting him without consequence. Suffice it to say, at 17, he was a monster in the making. Luckily, we realized the error of our ways, and long story short, after much turmoil, he pulled himself up by his bootstraps. The two younger children benefited from what we learned and the result was that they didn’t have to go through the hell their older brother did, and consequently, neither did we. (funny how that works!) They had boundaries and discipline and consequences to their actions. Believe me, it made a difference.

    I believe how the Anthonys raised their daughter made a difference as well. Please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say here–I do feel sorry for the Anthonys. As a mother and a grandmother, I know they have felt a pain that few of us will ever experience. HOWEVER, I do hold them partially responsible for what has happened to Casey, and by default to Caylee.

    One of your commenters said that Casey was lazy, spoiled, and a brat and I agree. But, who allowed her to be lazy? Who spoiled her? and who let her behave like a brat? The people that raised her–George and Cindy. We’ve watched (IMO, what must have been happening for Casey’s whole life) as Cindy covered for, (it was a pizza not a dead body!), made excuses for her, (Just because she’s a liar doesn’t mean she’s a murderer), turned a blind eye to (my daughter isn’t pregnant, she’s just gaining weight), and appeased her(What do you mean, “sweetheart”? If you hadn’t lied we wouldn’t be here…) We’ve seen the Cindy/Casey/George dynamic play out before our eyes.

    I agree that most people, at some point in their lives, stop blaming their parents for everything that has happened to them and take responsibility for their actions. But, for most of us that happens when we graduate from college or earlier if we don’t. It happens when we leave our parent’s home and come to the realization that we are the masters, of our own fates. It’s called growing up.

    Casey never left George and Cindy’s house. Everything we’ve seen indicates that they were and are still very much locked into an adolescent/parent relationship. Casey is still a child. She resided in her parent’s home, she depended on George and Cindy for everything in her life–including, for the most part, the raising of her daughter. She still reacted like a child–and we’ve seen a glimpse of that in the jailhouse video when she threw a tantrum for her parents.

    I believe, like you, that Casey killed her daughter to spite her mother. It was a childish uncontrolled act like many other childish and uncontrolled acts she had committed in the past. I also believe she thought she could get away with murder–because she’s gotten away with everything else she’s ever done–thanks to George and Cindy. Casey, of course, committed the act, but her upbringing played a big part in her ability to carry it out.

    And the innocent victim was Caylee. Caylee appeared to be an aside, a bargaining chip. She was never front and center in the relationship between Casey and her mother–only in the power struggle. How else could Casey kill her own daughter to hurt her mother?

    Sorry for the long comment, Dave. Got started and couldn’t stop! Thanks for letting me offer my point of view.

  135. Diana: I to have 3 grown children, 2 boys and a girl. My 25 year old son is a very responsible hard-working father of 3, he has never given me a hard time. My daughter is 24 teaches school has a 3 year old daughter that she adores. My 22 year old son is single and has always been different, he started at a young age to rebel and we have always seen things different. Now I raised all 3 of these children taught them all the same rules treated them all the same way and made no difference between them, please explain to me what I did to my 22 year old to make him behave in this manner. How is it my fault when he does things that are not acceptable, don’t say it’s not my fault because you are blaming C&G for Casey’s actions. You are lucky that your 3 sons have made you proud but in all reality you are living in a fantasy world and have no clue to what it takes to raise a strong-willed child. It is a battle from the start and it is easier to give in and allow them to throw their temper tantrums. When do children become responsible for their actions?

  136. soninheaven…. Re: Comment 8:35PM
    You don’t have to have a College Degree to make Sense and I must say to me what You just wrote
    makes Sense… and I agree with what You had to say.
    Again, that is my Opinion.

  137. Sorry I’m so late getting back to you SONINHEAVEN, but I got an antivirus alert and I think i have a malware problem. I’ve got to fumigate my laptop.

    You know, it’s amazing. Parents always blame themselves when their kids go bad. I’m sure Cindy and George are wondering where they went wrong and they are feeling terrible guilt. You said some things that I tried to say. One was about their neighbors. these are people who lived for years with them side by side, and none of them have condemned the Anthonys. All I hear from strangers is how horrible they are. they proudly brag about their Christianity and go out living like hypocrites. They disgust me. They know nothing about the Christian world and if they think they do, I want no part of them or their religion.

    George was a career homicide detective. Maybe he didn’t spend as much time with his kids as he should have, but so what? Again, you are right. Casey was a big girl. she knew right from wrong. She has never been arrested for anything. these total strangers come from around the corner and, yes, throw stones. then, they run away like the cowards they are. You know what sort of an uphill battle you’ve had with your son. I dare any of these asses to come in here now and tell you what a bad parent you are. No, they won’t do that because you are here to respond. these types of people love to do it behind everyone’s back. They live in their glass houses. Their poop doesn’t stink. They are perfect and they create a god around themselves who gives them permission to judge.

    Did you notice that when I ask them a question, they run? It shows what lack of character, backbone and judgment they really have. I am ashamed that I have allowed them space on my blog.

    I’ll go look for your 21 March comment and forward it here. Thanks.

  138. Thank you for taking the time to comment here, itsamysterytome. I know you keep rather busy at your blog and I enjoy stopping by to read your posts, sometimes leaving a word or two.

    I think you’ve said a lot that makes sense and I agree with you. There are a couple of things that really bother me about some of the commenters here and elsewhere and it is to throw most of the blame at George and Cindy and that’s just not fair. I think there is a dynamic at work here. We looked through a microscope at this family and what did we see? I think we saw ourselves and it’s become a fascination to pick this family apart, piece by piece and lay blame for even our own mistakes on them. Take a look at the average dysfunctional family, of which there are many. How many commenters cast themselves as the epitomy of perfection, with total abandon for the glass houses they live in? If we did case studies of families, we’d find too, too many just like or very similar to the Anthonys. Yet, look at statistics. Less than 1 in 30,000,000 is going to produce a murderer. The percentage of filicidal mothers is much, much less. I, for one, can attest to growing up in a very dysfunctional family and I turned out right. My mother doted, she spoiled, and she thought we could do no wrong. Should I still blame her for what I did not turn out to be, just because everyone must do it to Cindy? Of course not. So what Cindy has always been a wishy washy mother and not perfect? Is this the diagram for raising death? If so, we should probably euthanize half the population of mothers to keep the rest of the mothers happy. We won’t even discuss bad fathers, of which no one knows what sort of parent George was and is today. For that matter, no one knows what sort of mother Cindy was 15 years ago and it disturbs me that we live in a world of mothers, actually armchair psychologists, judges, juries and executioners all rolled into one, that live for the day the Anthonys are dead.

    Sure, parents raise their children and are responsible for that. I still am waiting for an answer about Lee. If George and Cindy are and were such horrible parents, how can anyone account for Lee? I haven’t heard one thing being discussed about their horrible parenting skills when it comes to him.

    Please feel free to stop by any time. I am humbled.

  139. hi mystery… nice seeing You inhere.
    Dave does have an interesting Discussion here and so many different Opinions from Bloggers, which is good.
    I like Your Comment mystery, as always You
    do make a valid Point.
    In my Case, I wanted to be independent as soon as I was old enough and I definitely made my Mistakes, I did however always had to take the Consequences of my own Actions.
    I must say it started when I was a Kid, my Parents made sure there were Consequences
    when I did something wrong. some would say maybe they were strict.
    I guess Casey never did have to learn that.
    Sometimes Children can grow up in the same House with the same Parents one turns out good and responsible and the Other the Opposite under the same Circumstances.
    I could write about this Subject forever but I won’t, I will say, there is a little Truth in most of the Comments here, it just isn’t a Black and White Situation when it comes to raising Children .
    As a Parent You just can do Your Best and hope and pray Your Children will turn out to be good and honest People and a Plus to Society,not a Burden.
    I don’t think there is such a Thing as a perfect
    Parent , now I must say when my Sons make me proud due to something they did or have accomplished, I am just too happy to take the Credit… lol…, I see nothing wrong with that,
    after all I did contribute somewhat or a lot whatever the Case maybe.

  140. well, time for me to go
    Good night Every One,
    we have a little Thunderstorm here, perfect time to sit back and relax a little before going to Bed.

  141. Dave–
    You know, I think we’re pretty close to being on the same page about all of this! I agree with you that there are some commenting on the blogs that are so full of venom it makes you step back and go “Whoa!” There’s more going on with them than just the fact that they are following a murder case. For whatever reasons, they are using these blogs for some sort of personal catharsis at the expense of the Anthonys.

    That said, the Anthonys have, from the beginning, invited the media into their lives in ways that might not have been in their best interest for reasons only they know. They have not hidden from the glare of the spotlight. I can understand people judging their actions. I have judged their actions. I think it’s just human nature. I think it is admirable that you have managed to refrain from doing that and you have remained consistent about it.

    About Lee. As I said, I hold the Anthony’s, partially responsible for what happened to Casey. I can only account for Lee in this way. In my mind, (and yes, I’ll say it before anyone else does, my mind is slightly askew, so take what I’m about to say with a grain of salt, please!) parents are 33 1/3% responsible for the finished product. 33 1/3% can be blamed on the propensity of the genes, and 33 1/3% lays squarely on the shoulders of the individual–how he processes the lessons learned at the knee of his parent against his natural tendencies. Individuality tips the balance.

    I also think that no matter how hard a parent might try, each child within the family unit is treated differently. For example, boys are raised in a different way than girls, a passive child is treated differently than an aggressive child, etc. Casey, by written accounts of people who knew her as a child, (Cindy’s brother, Rick, comes to mind) said she was treated like a princess and everyone in the family catered to her. Lee was secondary to Casey. Maybe that made him more independent. Maybe the fact that he wasn’t as spoiled as her tipped the balance for him. Who knows.

    We’ve all known or been part of families where one child barrels down the path to destruction and another rides the waves to success. Obviously, I’m not smart enough to know why that is, but I do know that a person’s childhood has a tremendous, sometimes catastrophic effect on a person. That, too me, says there’s a lot riding on what kind of parents fate hands you.

  142. Well, that was a chilling account of what may have happened. Ick. This would mean Caylee did realize the horror, suffered, and tried to call for help, but was stifled by the duct tape. The little tears rolling…

    Awful. Just awful. The worst part of this scenario – besides the obvious – is that would mean Cindy and George slept in their bed on the night of June 16th, with their dead grandbaby in their own home, under Casey’s bed. While Casey was hanging with Tony and having fun. I hope this DIDN’T happen, because something like that would drive Cindy and George over the edge, if they found this out now.

    Sadly, I don’t see many other explanations for backing the car into the garage for the first time ever, other than the body had indeed been stored overnight in the house, or backyard play equipment, or sheds.

    And, the conversation regarding how much responsibility belongs to parents as to how the kids turn out is very interesting! But, I am late catching up on everything. I have a lot to respond to regarding that part of this discussion – it’s just been a long long day dealing with issues – and I will have to wait on that part. I am tired. I’m at the mid age, dealing with kids needs, and parent needs at the same time. Draining!

    But, I do have a lot to say about the current discussion! A lot of things that surprised me! Nothing like age to teach you about stuff! LOL

  143. Itsamysterytome – I do enjoy your blog! You come across as a more even-minded poster than a lot of the crazy blogs! LOL If I am remembering you correctly – we totally agree about the boat and foundation. But, we can discuss that later.

    I just wanted to add a small capsule about the parenting debate before I go to sleep. And this is just the tip of the iceberg about all the issues brought up. But this particular issue makes me laugh.

    Everybody wants to blame Cindy for how Casey turned out. But, Shirley (Cindy’s mom) gets a free pass for how Cindy turned out.

    Shirley is a saint, and Cindy went wrong. Cindy is a devil, and Casey followed her footsteps.

    Does anyone else see the glaring disparity?

    This fact alone makes me laugh out loud at the commenters on other blogs that wax all sweet about Shirley.

    Either it IS the parents fault, or it is not.

    So, Cindy learned her craft from someone.

    OR, kids do just turn out the way they do, despite your best and worst efforts as parents.

    Heck, if Cindy is responsible for Casey, then Shirley is responsible for Cindy, then Shirley’s mom is responsible for Shirley. And on down the line.

    From the interviews I have read with Shirley – Cindy comes across as a downright dutiful daughter.

  144. Did Cindy being a dutiful daughter teach Casey to be a dutiful daughter?

    Obviously, not.

    What went wrong?

    Could it be Casey is alone responsible for her actions? Oh my goodness.

  145. Hi, itsamysterytome. Sorry I didn’t respond last night. I take 2 pain medications at night for diabetic neuropathy and they tend to make me tired.

    I think we are pretty close to being on the same page, too. There are true nutcases out there who are totally obsesses with this case and there’s nothing that will change that. There are fringe elements everywhere in the world.

    Yes, the Anthonys invited the media in, but the media were there before they had a chance to rationalize the whole thing. Cindy, in particular, made few new friends because of her actions, but I hardly think it gives pause to counter blame from Casey to her mother. Unfortunately, she showed an ugly side and the public, through the media, perpetuated it and turned it into more of a monster than it really is. She fueled the hysteria whether she knew it or not. The interesting thing is that she hasn’t said more than a peep in 3 months, yet the tide continues to flow against her. Quite obviously, plenty of those elements still hold a grudge.

    I remember in the early 80s, I was dating a woman with an 11 year old son. He came up to me one day with a Rubik’s Cube in hand and said, Watch this, and in a matter of seconds, he had it figured out. I said, Let me try, and I couldn’t do jack with it. My point is, we must factor societal and technological changes into the equation. Look at the 50s, when I grew up. It was before every household had a TV and we all sat down at the dining room table for dinner. We can go back to generations previous to mine and see evolutionary changes in how we respond to criteria of the moment, such as living in rural areas and walking to school, not having neighbors in your home like today. I rode a bus a good part of my life to get to school and that afforded an opportunity to interact with my peers more than my grandfather did. Today, we Twitter. We spend hours online and TV brings events from thousands of miles away directly into our living rooms. Consequently, the public sees and hears more about the Anthonys than what we would have heard about this case 20 years ago. It is no different from the curtain your neighbor pulled back to snoop on her next door neighbor. It’s all about gossip. That’s why forums and blogs exist on this matter and I think we try to be as subjective as we can be, but those elements keep creeping in, those who thrive on tabloid fodder.

    One of the consequences of technological advances is the propensity to interpret events in a manner most suited to each viewer. For example, a woman from Boston who left a comment here a while back concluded that the reason why Casey ran out of gas in her car was because she didn’t want the gas station attendant to smell the rotting body in the trunk. This was an otherwise excellent commenter, rational and sane, but what she failed to take into consideration was that all gas stations in Florida are self-serve. You might find a few where full service is available, but for the most part, they do not exist. You see how things get confusing? People absorb information and calculate their own formulas that, therefore, must be true. It is true that Cindy opened up and hurt her reputation, but on the media, we glimpse her from only two dimensions and we imagine the third by our own interpretations.

    Alluding to our societal advances through different means, we can see through the generations how society changes. Today, we see violence on TV, on the news and in fictional programming, yet we are not influenced enough to act out our own real life acts that reflect what we see and hear through media outlets. What this leads me to are questions about what sort of person Casey would have been had she grown up in a different time. Would she have still killed her daughter? Would Cindy have been more stringent and not so subservient towards her daughter? Would a Goth mentality have an effect 30 years ago when it didn’t exist? You see, I don’t adhere to a third/third/third formula. There are too many influences that drive the individual. Sure, we get many of our traits from family members, but each mind must interpret what it sees. I am very left-handed. I grew up in a right-handed world and I had to adapt. I write upside down because the 3-ring binder got in my way. I still write that way. No one in the recent past of family generations was left-handed. Needless to say, I didn’t inherit the trait form my parents. Both of my parents have artistic sides. Out of four children, I am the only artist. Three siblings out of four do not think abstractly like me and that drops your equation to 25% if we go by that standard.

    Out of millions upon millions of spoiled brats, princesses if you prefer, 99.9999999999999999% to not kill their own children and most of these children are more spoiled than Casey ever was. Casey drove a 10 year old car. Do you know how many kids drive brand new BMWs to school in Winter Park, an Orlando suburb? Those kids feed off their wealthy parents. They do not kill. Casey had nothing compared to them. Are her parents responsible? Sure. They let her watch too much TV. They gave her what they had and she took advantage of it. George and Cindy will forever ask themselves, Where did we go wrong? The guilt trip is already upon them. I think the public should back off. Casey wrote her own fate.

  146. Remember, Sheron, this is my fictional account of what might have happened, but I think it’s safe to say that Caylee was dead on the 16th, whether she remained in that house or not.

    I absolutely agree with your sane and rational thought. Who begat Shirley, who begat Cindy, who begat Casey? How far back do we want to place blame. That is a very, very good point. Personally, I think Casey is solely to blame. I don’t think it’s fair to attribute blame to a family no one knows, and I think if the roles were reversed, these same people would deny that they were to blame. It’s always someone else’s fault.

  147. Wow…..a thousand thoughts ran through my mind as I read comments.
    One of my first thoughts … “what am I doing in this blog, reading posts regarding a dead child, her mother, and family?” I know how I got into this, intended on giving it up and yet here I am.

    I don’t think I could ever explain how dysfunctional my family was while it appeared we had “everything”. Short example: At fourteen I was taken to the hospital by my girlfriend’s mother as my appendics had ruptured. I was at the hospital for almost two weeks and my mom and dad stopped by one time for not even twenty minutes.

    Do I blame my parents for all their stupidity and ignorance…..absolutely not. Have I examined what made them to be as they were…….you bet I have.

    Dave, my point is ……. some of us looking for what went wrong are being classified in with “you people.” Those of us who are not in your area and bombarded daily “puzzle” in an effort to try to understand and gain knowledge. It is not “blaming”.

    I see it this way…….there are different kinds of flowers to say the least. One persons flower bed thrives with limited amounts of weeds while another flower bed does not do well, and another is full of weeds. Why? Is it seeds, is it soil, is it where the flower bed is, wrong kind of flower for the area, too much water, not enough water, too much care or not enough care…….I’m sure you get the point.

    I think you might be pulling some flowers thinking they are weeds. How do you know that the “christians” are flowers trying to reach for a little bit of sun or water? Words do linger and thoughts can be changed. You have a gift in words. “Water those flowers” until you know for sure they are weeds.

  148. Dave,

    I should have included other persons instead of just the “christians”.

    To all of us that have survived our losses and hardships, WHEW ! Thank God (or whatever) we were not dealt the same hand as the Anthonys’ !

  149. I hope that I don’t come across on this site as a cold and uncaring person. I am in no way that type of person. I was raised in a family where my father beat my mother an average of 3-4 times a week. My earliest memories are of my mother and me hiding in the woods or sleeping in the car to keep her from being killed. She never found the courage or strength to leave him. After I turned 18 I was more determined than ever to escape that kind of living and found a job, worked hard and got myself a small apartment. I will always remember my first night alone, I sat for hours and just reflected on my last 19 years of life. It was that night that made me the parent I am today. When my 1st son was born I made a promise to him that he would never live the life I had, and to this day I have made good on my promise. I never allowed a man to lay his hands on me and made a home for my children that was violence free. I have not had a easy time raising my children, I divorced when they were 11-14 years of age. When my ex-husband left he left no more to be seen. That left me with 3 teenagers to handle alone, I did what I hope was the best I could do. Looking back I see many mistakes I made, and in making them I have over the years realized why I made the many decisions that I made. It was because I was so tired, I worked all the time to feed and provide a home for my children and alot of times it was easier for me to give in and avoid the fight. Was it right for me by doing this, most likely no, but at the same time I was doing all I could just to keep us all together. I guess what I am trying to say is as parents all households are different as with all kids, no 2 are alike. It would be easy for me to blame my mistakes on the way I was raised as it is easy for my son to blame his mistakes on the way he was raised. Over the years I have found peace with my parents and the abuse as finally stopped, I talk with my mother 2-3 times a week and I love both of them to this day. There comes a point and time when parents have to make a decision and allow their adult ‘children’ to grow up, and that is what C&G were doing, hoping that Casey would accept the responsibitlity of Caylee. Did they make the wrong decision some say yes and other say no. Should C&G blame themselves for Caylee’s death, NO. Casey did that on her own, she knew right from wrong and she was not pushed into killing. She knew at the time she took that precious life that it was wrong and no one made her do it. Cindy acted strange and very protective over Casey after she realized that Caylee was gone. Would I have acted in that manner, I honestly can’t answer that because I have never been faced with something so horrific. I would like to think I would use better judgement, but who knows how they would react. That is why I embrace the Anthony’s and reserve from judging them, they cast enough blame on themselves that will last a lifetime. I am raising a son that is similar to Casey, he is spoiled and I guess in a way I am to blame, at times I took the easy way out. He is now 22 and he knows right from wrong, he knows there are certain laws that we have to live with, but he chooses to disobey them at times and he now pays the price, mamma doesn’t run and help him each time. Do I love him any less NO I love him more if anything and it breaks my heart to see him struggling through finding his adulthood. When Cindy told Casey she had 30 days to get it together she was indeed trying to break her from relying on her and George and hoping Casey would grow up. Finally she was doing what alot of people have condemed her for not doing over the years. IMO the Anthony’s were damned if they do and damned if they don’t, it was a no win situation.

  150. I wouldn’t wish what the Anthonys went through on anyone, either, Newbie. When I was talking about Christians, I was referring only to those that don’t act very Christian-like. I cannot understand how these people can condemn the Anthonys and wish death and destruction upon them when they talk about what great Christians they are in the same breath. It is highly hypocritical.

  151. That is a wonderful testimony, SONINHEAVEN and it speaks volumes about your good and loving character. No one has the right to judge the Anthonys. they are not on trial. I don’t have any idea why these people feel they have any right to judge. I would never wish ill on anyone, but I hope that one day, they find out how difficult it is to live in a glass house.

  152. SONINHEAVEN, You really said a lot of great value.
    Your struggle in disheartening situation, yet you still are
    full of love and forgiveness. You are another good woman, good person, and you are to be commended…. damn’ed if you d and damn’ed if you don’t! I am a parent and I can imagine how horrible it is for the Anthonys… not just the crime, but even to know how the world is viewing Casey, she is what and where she is
    now, they know that better than anyone, and they know
    they have lost both their grandchild and their child in a
    most horrible situation. I really do not see why it would be wrong for Casey’s parents to visit her in jail without recordins of any kind.

  153. Beatrice, I agree that they should be able to visit without the world viewing. I cannot begin to imagine what they are going through and anyone that says they do are being dishonest. Casey did something that we can’t even comprehend, how do we expect G&C do understand it. I know they have to miss that beautiful baby, I also know they must miss Casey. Do we stop loving our children when they do the unspeakable, I have never been faced with anything like the Anthony’s , but I do know that when my son breaks the law and calls me from jail, my heart breaks. I do not agree with his decisions but I don’t love him any less. Their hearts are broken and who are we to cast them off for standing by their daughter. Common sence tells us they don’t agree with her, yet how do you just stop loving a child that you gave birth to? If anyone out there can explain this to me please do.

  154. Okay, Dave. Very good points and ones my little pea brain will have to spend some time pondering! Thanks for the brain candy!

    I AGREE!!—— mostly. I still believe your upbringing has tremendous impact on your adult self–belief system, character, etc. The demons a parent wittingly or unwittingly plants in his child’s soul are impossible to completely shake. Their influence builds your first perception of yourself—your view of you. Your parents help create the person, good or bad, that you ultimately became.

    For instance, my mother never tired of pointing out my faults. I will, until the day I die, have low self-esteem and never quite believe I’m good enough. Doesn’t matter what I might have accomplished in my life, I will never shake that nagging voice in the back of my mind saying, “Who do you think you are?”

    My mother is directly responsible for that, and insecurity is a permanent part of my make-up. In that way she has heavily influenced the person I am inside. If I go out and do something heinous because of the insecurities she planted in my psyche, is she responsible for that, too? NO, but if she had done things differently, I would be different, and me as a different person might not have committed a heinous act. In that respect, she is partially responsible for the person I am, and she continues to influence, to this day, my choices. That’s what I meant when I said George and Cindy are partially responsible for what has happened to Casey.

    Thanks for a really great discussion and for making me think hard about my opinion of the Anthonys!

  155. And, I do believe, Sheron, that unless someone becomes aware– as Soninheaven did, and forcefully and purposefully breaks the cycle, the sins of the father do visit the son. Bad parenting is a growing chain and is passed from generation to generation. It takes great strength to break it.

  156. My pleasure, itsamysterytome. I do try to stimulate minds, including my own.

    I wonder, if we look at this theory and assume it’s true, why my brother is a major in the Air Force and loves to collect guns. He’s got a veritable arsenal at his house. Me, on the other hand, have never and will never own a gun or weapon of any kind. Why is that? We came from the same parents, after all. I wonder if it, in essence, goes way beyond parental upbringing. Yes, we grew up with the same parents and that’s where the buckshot stops. Mine continues on and includes, once again, areas of clearly defined generational differences. I am a product of the 60s and Vietnam. I was a conscientious objector before the term came into vogue. No, I’m no GD liberal Commie. I am just not a violent person and it has been my lifelong credo. My brother really came of age during Desert Storm. He enlisted in the AF after he got his electrical engineering degree in the late 80s. Did the fact that we grew up at different times have anything to do with it? I wonder if you go back to the Civil War days when brother fought against brother and parents wondered where they went wrong for their son to join the Yankees or the Confederacy. And they actually killed each other!

    Sure, Casey’s parents had an influence on her life, but I can say with complete absolution, they did not teach her to kill.

    Thank you for contributing to this discussion. Your appearance here has kicked it up a few notches, not to discount any other commenter in any way.

  157. itsamysterytome; Thank you for your thoughts. I actually think this discussion has led YOU to rationalized your own upbringing and to view what you can and can not do with what was passed down. The difference between you and Casey is that she chooses only her path without regard for anyone else. You have empathy, she does not. You rationalize your past, she does not.
    If you were to lead yourself further down the road you could conceivably change your thinking, knowing that your Mother’s words hold you back to this very day. Wouldn’t you want to change that about yourself and I do think we all can change if we really want to break the cycle. Unfortunately for Casey the only way she chose to break her cycle of responsibility was to snuff it out, and at the same time make her parents (wh0 she actually hated), PAY BIG TIME. Don’t forget what Casey wants = she gets and that includes NO DEAL with the Prosecution, but a long lengthy “I didn’t do it trial”. And who sufferes for that? The state, the Anthony’s, the general public. Who wins? The Lawyers, the Media, the Specialists. That’s who. Now to me that is monsterous and no one would have guessed this would happen almost a year ago. Now we have a dead little girl, finally put to rest and not lost, a bunch of idiot lawyers creating side shows, a blogging cast of millions with a passionate hate on for anything close to ANTHONYS, Talking heads every night on t.v. arguing both sides of the case. And here we are today, pondering our fate as children growing up, wondering if we turned out ok, in spite of our parents weaknesses and look we didn’t murder anyone did we? No this Casey was a BAD SEED indeed. No amount of loving care, or orderly discipline was going to change the fate of Caylee. It was written in the stars that this family was going to have some fateful tragedy upon their doorstep.
    In all good faith of the world we need to hold them close and be tolerant of their lives and how they live it. We have no cameras pointing in our faces, peering at our lives and all the movenments and words in it. Once and for all let’s try to be humane and not beat an old dog to death.

  158. No, Magoo2 ,that is a comment, not a post 🙂 You post a comment under a post (-ing). You post on a website and that website is also called a weblog blog or log.
    I think I got it.

  159. Ina; Is it me or do you seem to come across as a little rude. I have read this post, blog website whatever you call it for months. I am not in no way computer savvy as I had to e-mail Dave and ask him how to post, blog…. you seem very judgemental to me. Again that is JMO. Let up alittle and learn to relax. You take simple things way to serious. I can only imagine you are one tense woman……..I am sure you will set me straight on the difference betweeen a blog, post, website. I jsut enjoy reading all the bright comments and every now and then I will speak up…This needed to be pointed out, it is comments like yours that makes people afraid to join in, like they are going to say or do something wrong. Please give all of us that are not computer smart a chance.

  160. Mag; I am going to be brave and hope that in doing so I in no way step on Dave’s toes and answer your question on Detwill, she decided the other night to back out and not post here anymore…Dave ask her to stay but it was her decision to leave. You keep asking ..thought I would let you know.If you read all of Dave’s posts, blogs,ect. you will find for yourself what exactly happened I do feel comfortable in explaining the details to you. Just back up and read you will find for yourself…Thanks…

  161. What is rude to you then? I just try to be helpfull and tell what I have learned, that is all. I am not very good in computers too. How is your story getting on? Or is it rude to ask?

  162. It has been quite a day of important thoughts.

    Thanks to all of you and Dave, special thanks to you for maintaining.

    Now, I must go think while I work…..work while I think…whichever…see you all another time, hopefully.

  163. Ina; Thanks for asking I am working on my story and hope to have it ready in a week or so. No you are not being rude for asking, I was just trying to make a point that people who read this site for the first time may not understand your intentions, and may be intimadated by your comments. You do come across as a little hard. Please forgive me if I hurt your feelings I in no way meant to. I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, I enjoy all posts.

  164. Call me a judge or call me mental, but I resent being called judgemental. Let’s get outside 🙂 and have our fists judge for us!
    Oh, bedtime. Too bad. Gutenabend und so weiter.
    Und sei nicht böse wenn jemand nur wass hilfen will. Stelletje halve zolen. 🙂

  165. 🙂 Really? Do you mean that? A good one? Me?
    Well it is a pitty I am decently married or I would kiss you on the baldhead. I do so anyway. Pfft. I got your last hair in my mouth. Sleep well handsome prince LOL

  166. Dave, Nothing serious only Ina made a comment that upset me a little, talking about a post. She corrected someone and she is somewhat intimadating and I think she scares some people, making new people afraid to join in. As you know I had to e-mail you and ask how to post, alot of us are not very computer smart.

  167. Good Night Ina sleep tight, we can fight tommorrow better get a good night’s sleep your gonna need it, I am a very tough woman. LOL

  168. I think Ina was meaning to tease or “toy” with Dave as he once tried to educate us on blogs, posts and comments.

    I am not too computer-wise and still intend on educating myself……lol…..

  169. Dave-I agree 100% that Cindy and George did not teach Casey to kill. I never thought that.

    I’m also not disagreeing that outside influences and our ability to make choices plays a huge part in how we behave and what we do. Casey chose to go down the road she’s on. What she didn’t choose was what led her to the fork in the road in the first place. Her core—her foundation was not of her choosing.

    Really, I think we’re saying the same thing. It’s a mixture of a lot of things that made Casey, Casey. I’m saying 1 part of it is her parents. You’re saying 1 part of it is her parents.

    I also agree that the Anthonys had no clue what they were getting into with the media in the beginning. They were as naïve as you can get, and the reporters took advantage of that to increase their ratings. but, But, BUT…..They got savvy real quick.

    Whew! This was fun. We’ll have to do it again sometime!

  170. I would love to do this again, itsamysterytome. I will have to stop by and leave a few sentences or so at your home, too. I really enjoy civilized and intelligent banter and we have certainly done that.

    Yes, George and Cindy have their faults and Casey is their offspring. She did inherit some of their traits. I think what upsets me the most are the people who actually think they know that family more than the Anthonys know themselves. And, they think they know how much more civilized they would react under the same circumstances. My intent has never been to truly defend the Anthonys, it’s been to just point out that we’re all human and imperfect.

    Thank you so much and please keep in touch.

  171. You know, I was going to come back today to continue this “is it the parent’s fault” discussion – but y’all have made such excellent comments, I don’t feel the need! 🙂

    I will do a quickie that truly shocked me. I know some parents who are text book perfect. They are family, so I know what I’m talking about! LOL Church every Sunday, no drinking, no smoking, no swearing. Loving and kind. Just, great people. Not my cup of tea, but I truly cannot say an unkind word about them or criticize their parenting skills.

    I just found out the other day their daughter was doing cocaine at age 14. She was smoking cigarettes and pot regularly at age 20. She has quit all the drugs. But her parents do not have any idea she ever did them.

    You could have knocked me over with a feather when my daughter told me about all this.

    I see Dave has put up another post today that I need to read! But, just wanted to say to everyone – great comments today! I so enjoy reading everyone on this blog. We all come from different places, and have experienced different things. I truly appreciate the honesty that everyone brings to the table.

  172. Mystery, it’s been my experience that you are right on the money. You’ve made your points clearly and with logic and experience and I agree with you. I do believe, after raising two kids, that my influence in their makeup was only a part of their character. The rest is up to them and each child is different. In my case I feel I’ve shaped more of my daughter’s personality than my son’s.

    Dave, it’s late and I’m tired or I would talk more about your theory on how Caylee’s murder may have gone down. I appreciate how you stuck as much as possible to what we know and didn’t feel it necessary to dramatize the reality of a little girl’s death. There’s no need to. The simple truth is more than enough, thanks.

    I agree that Casey probably hated her life, although I hadn’t thought about it until I read your words ~ it was insightful of you to see it.

    I’m not as convinced as the majority of people are on the chloroform use. It’s an antiquated date-rape drug that is not available easily anymore, because it is so dangerous. Just a drop too much and OOOOPS!!! You’re DEAD. And while that was more than likely KC’s intention if she did use it on that fateful day, I don’t see her using it regularly to knock Caylee out when there are safer products (cold medication? xanax?) that can be bought at any pharmacy without any paper trail or questions or uncertainties as to the dosage and effect. I might be wrong but I’m also assuming that it’s hard to get chloroform although you may be able to order it on-line but wouldn’t that leave some kind of paper trail?

    Too sleepy to go on but thank you for taking the time to put together a completely believable, but grim, scenario. Cheers!

  173. soninheaven
    I am one who is a reads here daily and only posts very occasionally. But, I must defend Ina.
    I do not think you have picked up that she is from Holland and does a fabulous job commenting while also learning new information.
    I enjoy reading her comments and find her to have a delightful sense of humor.
    Hope I did not step on your toes, but I thought that would explain that Ina only had honorable intentions.
    Frosty

  174. You see, Sheron, that’s my point. Parents can’t police their children 24 hours a day. Is it the parents’ fault the 14 year old was doing coke at 14? No. Kids do all they can at that age to rebel. Parents are always wrong to them.

  175. Thanks, BEES KNEES. My account is purely fictional. I put in the possibilities from what we now know. Whether chloroform or Xanax was actually used, I don’t know. I did learn, through all this, that chloroform can be manufactured at home using household products.

  176. I won’t argue. You puzzled the jigsaw nicely together. But after this, what you put here, what happened then do you think?

  177. Just read your story,Dave. I think it very well may have happened that way give or take a few details. But I keep coming back to that flurry of phone calls which argues more for accident. Help me past this hurdle.

  178. Hi, lulu – The phone calls might have been her way of letting her parents know that everything was OK. Nothing wrong. Just wanted to call. Wanted to hear your voice, ’cause you’ll never guess what I just did. ha, h, ha! In other words, it might have been for self-gratification and a sort of cleansing; bringing herself back to earth and the real world, if you get what I’m trying to say.

  179. I can buy that. What I can no longer buy, now that the duct tape has been discovered, is that it was an accident.

  180. I don’t think it was an accident, by any means. There’s too much evidence stacked against it. Besides, she’s claiming she’s innocent, which means she had nothing to do with the death.

  181. The person I least understand in the whole scenario is Jose Baez. He must realize she’s guilty and therefore he should be looking for a plea deal. But he’s not.I have to assume he’s just sucking up the publicity which is not fulfilling his duty to his client.

  182. His duty to his client is to protect her. If she claims she is innocent, or she said that she wanted to plead innocent, he must do everything in his power as her defense attorney to defend her and her wishes. It’s the way the system works and it’s the law. If he acted any differently, he would be disbarred.

    Personally, I think it is wrong to treat him as if he’s guilty of something. After all, someone has to defend her. It is her right and whatever hatred and prejudices the public has regarding her and her attorney must fall on deaf ears, because no matter what, she has the right to plead any way she wants to and she has the right to a fair trial by her peers. I can’t figure out why people have such a witch hunt mentality. Hang her and him side by side. That’s not the way our legal system works. I’m not defending her by any means. I am defending the Constitution of the United States.

  183. Remember O.J? Of course you do. Remember Marcia Clarke, Chris Darden, – for the Prosecution, (they were hated), and then there was Johnny Cochrane and his entourage.
    In that scenario, it seemed like the Prosection was being witch hunted not the Defence Team. So we have yet to wait for Casey’s trial to see which way the wind will blow. Given we may have another year before trial anything can happen. We might even see people switch sides in favour of Casey. Nothing is out of the question on this one.
    The fact that Biaz, appears as if he is infatuated with his client, makes him more of a target. He just seems in a visual way to give off lusty ferrons towards Casey. I may be wrong but I have watched the body language. If my theory is favoured, you can then maybe surmise that Biaz is disliked because of that element, not that he is defending a young woman who deserves the right to a fair trial. JMO

  184. I think the body language is whatever the public wants to make of it. If she is despised, then he must be terrible, too. We see what we want to see. When WFTV reported that Baez was hugging Casey in jail, they twisted the news to sensationalize it and it stuck. Did WFTV report that jail officials said there were NO improprieties? No, of course not. The truth doesn’t always sell.

  185. I know I am off topic here but I really wanted to share some new info about my 22 year old son that I speak of so often. Spent the day in Knoxville TN with a great behavior doc. He specializes in behavior problems, after much intense testing he has diagnosed my son as extremely ADHD and Bipolar. He has started him on the newest medicine available, please note that he had alot of blood work and also a brain scan. I have had him to many doc’s but this is suppose to be the best in the area, please wish me luck and pray for the best.

  186. Baez…..interesting. I don’t think he is as stupid as people care to say. He may lack experience and make mistakes on procedure but look at where he is sitting ! And, when the pressure was on, he didn’t fold, did he. I think that takes guts. He so far has done quite a job…..look at the whole team that is there for Casey.

    John Morgan…..eh….he’s made a fool of himself. I wouldn’t hire him to represent my dog……and I don’t have a dog.

  187. Well I second you on truth not selling, but hopefully the trial will put a truthfull spin on what transpired last June to little Caylee. After all we will be relying on 12 jurors to sort through all the bullshit (presuming that some of it will be allowed) and the facts of the case.
    I’m just surmizing that Baez has a following of haters not just because he is defending Casey, but because there is an appearance of impropriety.

  188. That’s funny, too, Newbie. John Morgan is the biggest lawyer in Orlando and he has offices throughout the state, but you know something? I wouldn’t hire him, either.

  189. Soninheaven, I hope your boy does well.
    With regard to Baez,I think he’s gulty of poor judgment. If he did a good job of explaining the facts of life to Casey, she’d cop a plea. If she was insisting she’s innocent and wants a trial I’d agree with you, Dave. What I’m saying is that I don’t believe that’s the case. I don’t believe she’s confessed to him, but I think an experienced attorney would have already put this to bed. My perception is that he’s arrogant and is stringing this out for his own benefit. I may be jaded by years around attorneys, but that’s my view.

  190. Yes, Weezie, and people are naturally going to put him under a microscope because of who he is defending. Every time the guy belches, people are going to blame him for cutting a fart.

  191. Someone please help me to understand, I know that anything that is said between lawyer and client is confidental. Can she confess and he still plead not guilty, I thought somewhere along the line if your attorney knows your guilty by word of mouth’FROM CLIENT’ that they may be a conflict in pleading not guilty. Help me to understand.

  192. Lulu? I ask you to take a look a OJ’s attorneys from 10 years ago. Clearly, OJ was as guilty as sin and look what his attorneys did for him. Did you have the same bitter taste in your mouth for his lawyers as you have for Baez? Or is it just Casey and Baez?

  193. An attorney’s sole job is to represent his/her client. If the client admits guilt to the attorney it is still his/her job to protect that person. People seem to think this is the first time in history this sort of dynamic has occurred. Again, I ask: Was OJ guilty? To his attorneys, the answer is irrelevant. And he was found not guilty. His lawyers fulfilled their obligations to their client.

  194. If Baez gets his client off on the charge of first-degree murder, he will go down in the annals of criminal trials as one of the best. What do you expect Baez to do? Rat out on his client?

  195. Baez is only doing his job, Casey has the right to an attorney and someone had to do it, do I feel hard at him or disgust, no I think he has his hands full and if he can handle it we will all wait and see. The things he has been acused of are petty, silly things. I have watched the court hearings when I can and all I see are a attorney and client exchanging smiles. We don’t expect him to treat her like the world views her, that would be a good reason for a mistrial. His every move just as the Anthony’s are being watched and picked apart. I really believe that anything he does will never make the public happy. He is in the same situation as the A’s, frankly it doesn’t matter to me how he looks at her or how he reacts, I only want him to represent her to his best ability so when a verdict does come down it will be upheld by all appealent courts. Again this is JMO.

  196. The conflict would occur if Casey confessed to her attorney and Baez then put her on the stand at which time she testified that she was innocent. It would be subornation of perjury. But he can still defend her if she tells him she’s guilty. That goes right to the presumption of innocence.

    Dave, the whole OJ trial made me ashamed to be an attorney for a bit, but I only practise family law. I expect attornies to see the big picture and the greater good, but it doesn’t happen that much. I think that may be because good practitioners of family law know when not to be aggressive advocates.I keep thinking about what this whole family has gone through because of Casey.

  197. Yes, SONINHEAVEN, and it’s a very good and open minded opinion. I cannot grasp why many in the public sneer at him, like he’s evil or something. It goes way beyond funny. It’s kind of sickening. What about her friends? They were a lot closer to her than Baez. How come people don’t hate them? I call it selective hatred based on nothing.

  198. Dave I don’t expect him to rat out his client, I was confused on the way the confidentality laws work. My problem with a client confessing to his/her attorney and then being found not guilty, how does the attorney live with themselves. Yes I think OJ was guilty but I never thought he confessed to the murder to any of his attorneys. This is really the first time I have ever give this subject much thought. Like I have always said this case is very hard to understand or comprehend.

  199. This whole family has gone through murder, factually and figuratively speaking. I didn’t know you practice law. Then, as an attorney, you understand this. I seriously doubt she has admitted guilt to him. Everything about her is based on lies and I think she believes herself. What does surprise me is that he never went down a not guilty path instead of one of innocence. He is going to have to prove she had nothing to do with the murder.

  200. She’s so locked into the Xenaida story I can’t see anyway to get her off. With OJ it was a forensic case, but this is circumstantial. She’s stuck with her story-“I dropped her of at Sawgrass “conflicting with the Blanchard park story etc.

    Maybe you can explain something to me as a Floridian and a newspaper guy. Is the prosecution dumping all these documents on their own or is it that you have broad freedom of info there and the press is requesting everything? If it’s a prosecutorial decision it’s not good. They should save it all for trial. If it’s the press I don’t understand why they keep bringing up the issue of a fair trial.

  201. Lulu…….I guess I should have used the term “jaded”. lol At one point in my life I dealt with many different attorneys daily. While I did respect some, I sure didn’t care for the character of most.

  202. I’m confused. I thought Baez has said NOT GUILTY plea to the Judege? or did he say INNOCENT? I never thought you had a choice?

    Like O.J. how could anyone imagine either of them admitting guilt. They both show the same disregard for the truth, since neither of them tell it.
    Lulu; Aren’t we lucky to have an attorney on board. You may be able to shed some light on these issues. So, if Casey admitted guilt, no doubt, he would never put her on trial, is what you are saying. Most clients don’t testify just because the burden is on the other side to prove guilt.
    Soninheaven, I ditto on the appelate courts not being able to find fault on this one. What would happen if it is a mistrial? god forbid, we know the prosecution will go for another shot. I just hope the Prosectuors are READY for the fight of their lives. Hopefully the ‘slam dunk’ idea is not their mindset.

  203. Have you ever thought, and this is only my opinion, she may be using Baez as a ticket to a mistrial due to the fact of incompentent representation. It would at least give her grounds for an appeal. Then again if she has convinced herself she is innocent then I would assume she is convinced he will get her set free. Somehow I don’t think Casey is as crazy as she has been protrayed.

  204. No, he wouldn’t put her on the stand. If she confessed to him and then told him she intended to get on the stand and testify that she was innocent ,Baez would have to withdraw from the case. I’ve considered the inadequate rep issue, but Casey doesn’t have enough info to figure that out.

  205. Dave, that was precious. Belch, fart; yes I guess you could say he intertwines the two so we don’t know which end it’s coming from? OMG Soninheaven; I have been thinking the same thing about Casey. No matter how much she bamboozled her parents, she got away with her antics, with little or nothing to pay for.
    She has learned the coniving ways of a pathalogical liar, living with blinded emotions, no guilt feelings, and a superior value of her own worth. Yes, I think she has convinced herself that her home of the future will be somewhere on a southsea Island, sipping champagne, smoking weed, partying with the rich and famous. This is how she survives in jail, FANTASY.

  206. I wrote a piece called, Today is Sunshine Sunday and that will shed light on why all of the documents surface publicly. If you click on the title, it will take you there, but it takes you away from your commenting and you’d have to return.

    The compelling evidence with regard to Zenaida/Sawgrass/Blanchard is cell phone pings. On the dates she told law enforcement the two different accounts of what transpired, she was nowhere near Sawgrass or Blanchard. There are no records of any incoming or outgoing calls to anyone by the name of Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez, nor were there any text messages. None. Never. At no time.

    What Florida’s open-government laws, also known as its Sunshine Law do is release documents to the media and on government websites. The media decide what it wants to pick through and publicize, although private citizens are capable of finding out most of that information on their own. In the case of George Anthony’s suicide letter, Circuit Judge Judge Stan Strickland decided it wasn’t relevant to the prosecution and it will remain sealed. Bear in mind that not all evidence goes into the public domain. For example, you can see items with information blacked out. That may be used at trial, but it’s stuff the court deemed not suitable for public consumption.

  207. Sometimes, lulu, comments get caught in the spam folder. I generally release them when I see them. i don’t know why that happens. I think it’s just a WordPress glitch.

  208. Weezie – I believe a not guilty plea could also incorporate various versions, i.e., not guilty by reason of insanity and so forth. Innocent means just that. She didn’t do it at all.

  209. SONINHEAVEN – I believe a first-degree murder guilty verdict automatically triggers an appeal. Then, the process would have to go through an appellate court and work its way up the court system if a retrial is denied at each level, so I don’t think using Baez for retrial purposes would do her any good. No client wants to go through a trial again. I’m sure she would love to be out of jail, because she most likely would not get out on bail if granted a retrial.

  210. I understand the first dgree verdict warrrants an automatic appeal, and if I am correct it will go through 3 different appealent court. What I am wondering is what if the jury comes back with murder but not first degree, that does not get an automatic appeal…right?

  211. I don’t think so. Depending on the verdict, other than first-degree murder, I believe the defense would have to file a motion for a retrial, which could be granted or denied. Even if denied, the process doesn’t stop there. I think the defense would have to study the sentencing guidelines for that particular conviction and go from there.

  212. Dave, thanks for explaining the sunshine laws.
    I keep hearing a lot of criticism from the press
    about the prosecutor’s release of all these docs and it really doesn’t seem to be their fault. I think the law itself is a little screwy and could affect the trial. I can see releasing all this stuff after the trial.
    Incidentally, I’m not convinced the death penalty won’t resurface. (and don’t yell at me, I’m personally opposed. )

  213. My pleasure, lulu. I figured a lot of out of state people didn’t quite understand the Sunshine Law and this case is so much in the news, I just had to explain it and what better day than Sunshine Sunday?

    Personally, I’m opposed to the death penalty, too. I just don’t think it will resurface in this case because of different reasons. One would possibly be that too much of the evidence is circumstantial. Juries aren’t so eager to convict if the death penalty is on the plate. I think, in this case, the state would be better served with a life without parole sentence.

  214. Lulu and Dave. I am also against the DP, and here in Canada it has been outlawed for serveral years. That doesn’t mean we don’t have bad, very bad criminals that would be rights be found guilty and charged with the DP in the U.S.
    For whatever the DP brings, it is a costly and lengthy process. I agree DM; the jurors did an unusual thing in the Peterson trial. That was 90% circumstantial and yet they voted for guilty and DP. It had as much atttention by the media too.
    In any case I would much prefer to see Casey in a 9×12 cell for the rest of her life.

  215. Yes, I think you’re right about circumstantial cases and the death penalty.

    What is it about Casey that keeps her from owning up to what she did? She could spin it anyway she wanted. Do you think she has “blocked it out” or that she can’t tell her parents? Frankly she’s never minded hurting them in the past.

  216. Yes, Weezie, and there is no federal death penalty law. Each state decides. You know, you brought up a good point when mentioning Scott Peterson. He wasn’t despised as much as Casey, not even close, and he killed his unborn son AND his wife. Does society look at murder differently if it is a mother instead of a father and husband, or is it only because the child had not yet been born?

  217. I really did despise Scott as much as Casey. But in general I think you’re right. And it must be the “mother” thing. Very interesting point.

  218. I guess I could ask the same question about Scott Peterson and OJ. Look at Drew Peterson who hasn’t been charged of anything and how many dead wives did he have? Casey may have blocked it out of her mind or the desire to deny her mother a grandchild was so strong she could only escape it by taking Casey away from her. I think she considered Caylee a nuisance since the day she was born and never bonded with her. Look at how much she dumped her with her friends and mother whenever she could. Cindy didn’t mind, so she probably never noticed it as neglect.

    Time for Jeopardy. I’ll be back in 30 minutes.

  219. Now that I think about it, I am much more interested in mothers who kill than in fathers who kill. Because it seems like a more primal bond. Does that make sense?

  220. I wonder if Casey’s anger with Cindy stems back to when she was pregnant and Cindy just said NO to any alternative but ‘to keep the baby’. Casey never forgot that dictate and the plan was routed back then? Well it’s a thought… and if you recall Casey was engaged and she was angry with him for paying attention to Caylee. There was a jealousy towards Caylee for taking up her parents time, and a need to be free of all responsibility. This crime has taken on a life of its’ own, depending on if you are a Mother, Father, Grandparent, brother, sister, onlooker or friend. We try to analyze and find the reason for the outcome. One thing is for sure. We are all saddened and angry, perplexed and still wanting to solve its’ mystery.

  221. Lulu you might have a point there. However, remember Susan Smith, and the other Mother who killed her 5 kids? Well there was no screaming mob on the internet about them… and they were Mothers. I think because there is a group of characters, sort of like the show Father Knows Best (60’s daytime show)…. where we have a number of family members that all behave in quirky ways. It has become a family affair so to speak. We have not seen jailhouse conversations recorded and repeated before now. That adds a lot of dimension, plus we didn’t have Nancy Grace, Jane Valez Mitchell, Geraldo doing the kind of shows they are doing now. The papparazzi has become more powerful and the fact that FLA. has the sunshine laws, allows the general public to all kinds of information that would not necessarily be available in other states.
    This just happens to be more Soap Opera like, or like a Reality Show with real people with real lives, with microscopic lenses in their cereal bowls.

  222. Susan Smith is very interesting. Andrea Yates, however, had a post-partum psychosis. You are certainly right about the media ,weezie. I find myself watching Nancy Grace even though she may be the rudest person I’ve ever seen.

  223. Yes, lulu, that kind of does make sense because in our society, we do not send women into battle, just macho men. Men are more suited to kill, I guess. But certainly, no one would ever think a mother, who carries her child for 9 months and nurtures it, would ever be able to murder her own.

  224. It has been stated when Caylee was born she was placed in Cindy’s arms first. I am thinking that after she was taken home, Cindy started taking care of her from day 1. She did this most likely because she was so use to taking care of Casey, her intentions were good and not meant to hurt anyone. As all mother’s know the bonding between mother and child starts from the time the baby enters the world. With Cindy providing the majority of the care of Caylee, Casey more than likely never bonded with Caylee. She saw Caylee has a threat, not as her daughter. In feeling this way she, in her sick mind never took the life of her daughter but the one thing that had for 2 1/2 years had been nothing more than a pest.

  225. I heard that, too, about Cindy holding Caylee first, but I don’t know for sure that it’s true. it probably is. Nope, I don’t think Casey bonded, either.

  226. SOI and DM; What worries me is that we are trying to find excuses for Casey’s behaviour and that makes me crazy. Bonding is a very personal feeling that not even you Dave can understand. I am a little concerned that we are trying to find ways that will exonerate the behaviour of a pathalogical monster? For the sake of being very non judgemental, at some point we all have to come to the font of judgement day. Do we really need a form of 12 peers to make that happen? I think we all know that this is a very dangerous trail that we tread.
    We want to express our feelings but also want the legal system to play out ….

    Just for an aside. Tonight, NG had a guest who reported that in all the pictures of Casey, she had a lollipop and that indicates Xanex. She supposdely took her best friend to all kinds of crazy parties, and yet the Defence is putting Amy on the stand? Is this for real? OMG; I would want better representation than the ZG defence. Maybe the freeks are all collectively grouping themselves for the TRIAL OF THE CENTURY. SICK

  227. We: I am not making excuses for Casey, only stating what I think went on in her sick mind. I do not think she bonded with Caylee, but that is no reason to murder. Where and how did you get Casey with a lolipop and where does xanax come into play. The thing that scares me is all of these rumors are going on, in the media, on talk shows, etc. and people are believing them. I have never heard or seen anything to back up what you saw on NG tonight and until I do I will not even begin to take it seriously.

  228. No one is trying to make excuses for Casey, Weezie, so put your mind to rest. We are discussing possible strategies the defense may consider. You have to understand the girl is still considered innocent. She hasn’t gone to trial yet.

    I never heard of a lollipop representing Xanax. I think NG is over the edge on this one. She is grasping into thin air for definitive clues. The prosecution has subpoenaed a lot of people, including Amy. I don’t know what this deposition is all about, but Baez is certainly within his rights to do that.

  229. There was a caller on Nancy Grace last night who said the lollypop Casey had in her mouth while she was dancing had something to do with he drug ecstcay ? spelling. No more was said about it because a commerical came on .

  230. Well then, that’s just one caller’s idea. I have never heard that before and I think it might have surfaced months ago if there was any validity to it. You know how people get notions out of nowhere, like those silly codes that didn’t exist.

  231. Marinade, you intimate Casey has been manipulative for years… (See comment directed to Lee)

    What is your take on Jesse’s opinion that the Casey in jail is not the Casey he knew (a year and a half ago)

    Children change as they become adults…drugs, partying, sex can exaggerate that change for the worst.

  232. Hi, stoppage. I hope all is well with you.

    I think her personality traits developed from childhood on, just like everyone else. As an only girl, she was more than likely spoiled but she didn’t recognize it, instead choosing to think it was never enough. I think it’s obvious from her present demeanor that she is very selfish. This didn’t erupt overnight. She’s been this way for a long time.

    Take a look at any relationship. I’ve been through quite a few. Could I say after a break up that the woman I was seeing is the same way now? Of course not, or we’d still be together. Something changed. Was it me or was it her? In any event, when Grund dated her, he saw her through rose colored glasses. She might have been the same back then as she is today, filled with insecurities, but he never saw it. Or she may have become more bitter, more selfish. Obviously, her parents never saw through her. She’s a chameleon, in my opinion.

    And remember, she still saw him. They had just gone to the beach together and she called him on June 16th, the fateful day of all those frantic calls and the timeline of the call is in my story.

  233. Wow…sounds like you’re saying Jesse was a blind fool…and his family as well.

    He comes across as a real nice guy… except the fool part of him kept going and going in his continuing to see her, after he already knew the wild party side of her.

    He admits she is a different person now, but what does he consider different and when did he start to see it? He knew she increased her party life and her lying, but being more of something is not the same as completely different. And you’re right, knowing Casey was different didn’t keep him away. He continued to hang out with her. The only part of Casey that would be radically different is the murder part.

    In his statements, he sounded like he wanted to distance himself from her. But in reality, he wasn’t so distant.

  234. Well, I wouldn’t call him a fool by any means, but love is blind. I know I’ve been guilty of putting women on a pedestal and after we split up, there was a shock to get over and a natural proclivity to mentally adjust and make up for it. Who knows? They may have had a very good relationship and one day, POOF! She was gone. He had to rearrange his priorities and she was never the same person again because the relationship was never the same again.

    After a break up, you want to go back and you want to forget. It’s a rather uncomfortable period. You want to be close but you need to distance yourself.

  235. Dave- Just finished your fictional account of Caylee’s death. Interesting…but in your scenario, she was put into the pool after the administration of chloroform. Would this sequence still account for the (high) traces of chloroform found in the car trunk?

  236. Your Anatomy of a Filicide should be countered with the defense team’s possible explanation Anatomy of Innocence…or some such.

    Of course, you wouldn’t want to give Baez any helpful suggestions…but then he has plenty of experts for that.

    Perhaps your followers could come up with a creative, sequential, possibly valid defense…that would explain EVERYTHING.

  237. Right from the beginning, I have been intrigued by the meaning of the flurry of phone calls on the afternoon of June 16th. There were two distinct sets, I believe . LE characterized those calls as unusual.
    Dave, I know you referenced them in your fictional account. But could you elaborate on what you wrote as I’m really curious what you meant.

  238. stoppage- interesting suggestion. The sad thing is that the defense will never need to do anything like that. All they need is a few well-greased experts to cast enough doubt on the prosecution’s forensics, and hope to fuddle even one juror’s mind.

  239. Yes, Becks, that’s pretty much what I was thinking. The chloroform was used to make sure she was unconscious before she was put in the pool to cut off all air. That way, she couldn’t resist by kicking, splashing and screaming. This way, her little lungs couldn’t have expelled all of the chloroform, hence the raised level in the trunk.

  240. It would be nice, stoppage, and I sure would welcome it, but the only information we’ve gathered thus far has been pro-state. Nothing seems to help the defense. The only type of scenario I could see would be that unsavory characters kidnapped the child and that may just be what the defense is planning, but it’s too unbelievable at this stage. Nothing from that side of the fence has been disclosed, so any stories about it would really be more fictional at this point than mine.

  241. Dave- I realize it is a fictional account, but still, one Question: Why would lazy, always taking-the-easy-way-out Casey haul a 35lb (?)Caylee to the pool.

    Was that in your story just to incorporate Cindy’s statement about the ladder being out . Or do you really see her doing that?

  242. Whoa, it should have read: Why would a lazy, always taking-the-easy-way-out Casey haul caylee to the pool when the same thing could be accomplished by simply appyling a pillow over the face.

  243. I’ll try, Becks. I think, meaning in my opinion and not actually based on credible information, she tried to call out to her family, not in desperation, but to let them know that everything was alright. From now on, you’re going to see the new and improved, happy Casey. It was a way to justify her deed in her own head. Or, she might have been trying to tell them Casey was kidnapped, which I doubt. I don’t think she ever thought the plan through.

    I could picture her trying to explain to her mother and father, “I’m OK now.” She was not asking for forgiveness, she was asking for acceptance that would feed her ego. I know, it’s a warped way to think, but it is the way it is, in my opinion.

  244. If Caylee accidently drowned in the pool would the water she had in her lungs contain cholorform from the chemicals in the pool? Could that have been the source of the cholorform in the trunk?
    There was a doctor I worked with years ago that told me when a person drowns their lungs don’t fill with water. There is something that just closes off and the water goes into the stomach instead.

  245. I see her doing that, Becks, whether she used the chloroform or not, because of the ladder and also the gate being left open. There was no one else in that house that would have done that. Cindy (and George) were very careful to put the ladder away and close the gate because of Caylee. Cindy was a very diligent grandmother.

    As far as being lazy, look at all of the photos of Casey lugging Caylee around. That was routine to her. Putting the ladder away and closing the gate weren’t.

  246. People drown when their lungs fill with water, otherwise, they would suffocate. Crimes have been solved when a body washes ashore on the beach. During autopsy, the coroner finds pool water in the victim’s lungs. The person was drowned in a pool and tossed into the ocean to make it look like an accidental drowning. In Caylee’s case, she might not have been breathing all that much when she drowned, so it was quick and painless. Whether she ingested chloroform is something I put in there because of the possibility. On the other hand, chloroform concentrations in swimming pools vary a lot. Chloroform concentrations are highest just above the water, so this might be where the concentration originated and enough was left on her skin to produce a higher level in the trunk. Especially when mixing with gases naturally produced after death.

  247. My point is: If she DID use the pool (and I suppose Cindy’s recollection of the ladder not supposed to have been left out could mean Casey did use the drowning method) If she DID use the pool, could it have been for something other than ensuring Caylee’s death. I mean, there were so many other, more easily executable ways to stop a child’s breathing. Why go to that much effort?

    Maybe Casey’s plan was to simulate an accidental drowning. She would convince Cindy and everybody else that the ladder had not been put away from the swim they took on June 15th. She turned her back, and before she knew it, caylee had climbed in (as she was already familiar with the ladder). Once she discovers the unconscious child, she frantically calls Cindy’s cell, Cindy’s work, George’s cell, even Jesse Grund. She calls them because unlike 911, these calls are not recorded. How she sounds, what she says, will never be able to be analyzed over and over again.

    Of course, the cherry on top would be she could manipulate Cindy and George into guilt for not puting the ladder away.

  248. Except you’re missing one crucial piece of evidence, Becks. Why violently put duct duct tape over a child’s mouth and in her hair to simulate an accidental drowning? The cherry on top was really that heart sticker.

  249. Dave- so right about her not having much of a plan. Too lazy to even bother with that.

    Sorry, I still don’t quite get what you mean by letting them know everything is going to be OK….If George or Cindy had answered the phone that fateful day, d’ya mean she would have told them she did something to Caylee, but that everything’s fine?

    Sorry for my thick head, but elaborate, please?

  250. No, Becks. I think she was looking for recognition. Support. She wasn’t about ready to tell her parents anything about Caylee. Right after Caylee died, she could have been at a loss, but no remorse, for what she had just done, and she wanted someone from the family to just be there for a second while she regained composure.

    A lot of murderers don’t get satisfaction from the crime they just committed, they get it from knowing the person they killed is now dead and will never come back. It’s a rejoicing, yet hollow feeling at the same time.

  251. Yes, the existence of the duct tape is curious. In your scenario, the duct tape makes sense as it would have been used to ensure Caylee could not rouse any neighbours with her calls. Makes less sense in mine.

    But when nobody answered her calls that day, nor later in the afternoon when she tried calling again, she abandoned the accidental drowning story and started thinking of another story.

    Casey has a need for drama, she’ll tell elaborate, fantastical lies, even when the truth is simpler. (eg. Instead of simply telling Amy Huzinga she wasn’t going to Jacksonville, she says George had a stroke; to explain the non-existent Black Jack, she says it was stolen from her desk at Universal, where she had left it as it would not stay charged; she tells Cindy a fabulously detailed story about coming back from Jacksonville with Zanny in one car, she in another, and Zanny’s car being hit, Zanny going to Jacksonville General with a busted arm, Caylee’s okay, but she can’t come back to Orlando because she has to stay with everyone until Zanny’s mother arrives)

    So the new story would involve an abduction and she figures duct tape would add plausibility.

    I’m stretching here….:)

  252. Actually, I always figured thae duct tape was there because Casey chloroformed Caylee and placed her in the car trunk, and that was her preferred method of babyminding. The duct tape was an added insurance that no noise would emit to alert passerbys. Maybe she’d done this more than once in the past, and always got away with it.

    She long had fantasies of doing away with Caylee, hence the computer searches, but was really too wrapped up in her own selfish pleasures to extend any real effort to make a good fool-proof plan. The urge would flare up every once in a while when Cindy or George infuriated her, but for the most part they left her alone, gave her a car to use, a rent-free place to shower, afforded her opportunities to enrich herself at their expense. She had them fooled and in hand. She was in control, and she would go on drifting indefinitely until there was an opportunity. Maybe she even semi-planned to do away with G & C as she told Amy Huzinga that Cindy was transferring the house over to her. But she was smart; she’d figure something out in the not-too-near-future.

    So she wasn’t ready the day Caylee died.

  253. Could be, Becks, but I think she had been planning on killing Caylee for some time. The “accidental” drowning would have been served better had she called 911 to right away. It would have most likely been ruled an accident and that would have been the end of it, but I’m sure she would have said Cindy left the gate open and the ladder up and that wouldn’t have worked because Cindy knew better. She didn’t try to use that story and that leads me to think she had never planned it to be that way. She very stupidly thought this fictional nanny story would sell.

  254. I don’t buy the accident waiting to happen theory one bit and I’ll tell you why. Suppose she had taped her mouth shut in the past and tossed her in the trunk to keep her quiet. Do you know how much that would have traumatized this little girl? No way would she have acted so bubbly when with her grandparents. I went to the memorial in February and what everyone in attendance saw were photos and videos of a very happy, well adjusted child. Being locked in a trunk would have turned her into a mess, and she was anything but that.

    The clincher was the duct tape in the hair. That showed purpose and a lot of hostility.

  255. A 911 call would be recorded and analyzable over and over again for tone, inflection, words used. To be able to devestate Cindy with such horrific news affords her much more satisfaction.

    As for the ladder, she had no doubts she’d be able to convince everyone that it was left there accidentally from the previous day’s swim. She was smarter than everyone, remember?

    And what if Casey actually WANTED that of everyone, only Cindy would be absolutely certain she wasn’t telling the truth, because Cindy was absolutely certain the ladder had been put away. Maybe she counted on giving Cindy a knowing smirk, and then turning on the tears for everyone else. Cindy would know, but couldn’t prove.

    What a way to get back at your bitch of a mother, eh?

  256. A 911 call would have been taped and analyzable over and over again for tone, inflection, words used, etc. Calls to C & G would not, and she could refute as needed anything they recalled. And what pleasure Casey would derive out of personally delivering such devestating news to Cindy.

    As for the ladder, what if she actually COUNTED on Cindy’s absolute certainty that the ladder had been put away. She had no doubt she could sell HER version to everyone else, cause she was smarter than all of them, remember? But Cindy being absolutely sure plays right into her hand. Casey would give her smirking looks, then turn the tears on for everyone else. A vengeful grandmother’s words against the grieving mother’s.

    What a way to get back at your bitch of a mother, eh?

  257. Yes, getting back at her mother is most likely the avenue the state will try to show as the overall motive.

    I really don’t think she ever intended to make the death look like an accident or she would have tried it, since it would have been the easiest way out. I think she plotted all along to use a nanny as her excuse, not reason. She never quite understood the power of law enforcement and they saw right through her the moment they looked into her eyes and she opened her mouth. It would have been the same no matter what story she told. The nanny story evolved over time because that was the reason she gave for Caylee’s whereabouts before she even killed her. She used the excuse to her mother and friends when all she was doing was dropping her off with whoever would watch her. Where’s Caylee? She’s with the nanny. This went on and on and by the time she decided to finish her off for good, she had imagined all of the scenarios (so she thought) and figured she’d get away with it. After all, it had always worked in the past and she tried her best to turn Zani into a real person.

  258. Yes, I thought about the possibility that Caylee would tell about the trunk.

    When they are young enough, anything you do to a child can be viewed as “normal” to the child. So she acclimatized Caylee early enough. And as for talking about it, maybe Casey did know the end was coming soon, as Caylee got older and her ability to communicate improved. Maybe she knew the gig would be up soon, but like all sociopaths, somehow she believed she would be able to bluster her way out.

    Makes no sense to us, but we’ve seen countless examples of her choosing actions which most people understand are bound to trip you up later, but she still does it. Stealing Amy’s and Shirley’s cheques…cashing them in your own name…how can anyone think they will get away with that? You can’t but she believes she can succeed where everyone fails.

    So in Casey’s mind, that would not have been a big problem.

  259. A few of us, meaning commenters and me, wondered about Caylee growing up and starting to talk more as a big issue a couple of months or so ago. Sure, Casey may have viewed that as a threat to her freedom because Cindy would have put the brakes on suddenly and really, really hard. BOOM! End of partying, and Cindy would have done her best to take Caylee away.

    I’m also sure that the defense will try this strategy: Use Cindy as the driving force between her and Caylee. In other words, Cindy forced Casey to seek an outside source to watch over her daughter, since she felt her mother was constantly trying to take Caylee away from her. Consequently, Cindy had created the wedge, not Casey.

  260. The bothersome thing about this whole case is on the day they first took Casey to court, where she had on the hooded blue shirt with numbers on it, she had sort of a smirk on her face and sort of a cocky attitude when she was walking into the room. Her attitude sucked and the look on her face seemed as if she were gloating about what was going on. JMO

  261. You and others have mentioned the duct tape entangled in the hair as signs of hostility and intent to harm/kill. I always wondered why. To me, it’s not necessarily so. If she periodically used tape to quiet Caylee, and she was not the most careful of mothers, and caylee had hair long enough to tie into ponytail (as we saw with Mount Dora video), then why couldn’t the tape just have caught on the tape as a matter of course. Business as usual, Caylee, let’s put that tape over your mouth once you start felling sleepy.

    Does that make sense? I just don’t see it as proof positive of intent to kill.

  262. I just re-read your remark about the satisfaction felt upon knowing the dead person is gone forever.
    So Casey would have called C& G to secretly gloat over the deed being done? And then when she couldn’t reach anyone, she tried Jesse too, as Jesse was another one who loved Caylee?

    Do I have that right?

    Why the second flurry of calls, then?

  263. Sorry for the duplicates. And that was my comment, but forgot to enter my handle.

    Dave- I just want to know if I am getting the gist of what you are saying.

  264. Becks – Part of the defense could be that because of the fighting between Cindy and Casey, Casey deemed her mother as somewhat unsuitable to watch her daughter. Because of that, she was forced to seek a nanny to get her away from her mother’s constant nagging.

    The tape. No one accidentally places duct tape over a person’s hair. Have you ever tried to remove hair from duct tape? No, because you just can’t do it. If she didn’t do it on purpose, she would have purposely had to cut her hair to remove it, just like the medical examiners did. That was one of the primary reasons why the medical examiner stated the death was a homicide. Take the tape, the way the body was tossed into the woods, the trunk and Casey’s attitude and partying, not to mention all the lies, after death and add them together and try to tell me all of this was an accident. You just can’t do it.

  265. Actually, I don’t for a second believe Casey is innocent of Caylee’s death. I do think there was considerable intent to eliminate Caylee and possibly George and Cindy as well. Much as she saw Caylee as an obstacle to her happiness, she would have regarded her parents as obstructions to be overcome on her way to fulfilling the lifestyle she deserved.

    It just boggles my mind that she would execute such a half-baked plan, with her freedom and possibly her life on the line. The holes in her story are big enough to drive a semi through. Everything she tells Le can be easily verified or discounted. that alone makes me wonder if the timing of the death was not what she had planned.

    So, it’s not so much I think it was an accident, but that she hadn’t planned on the death happening on that particular day.

  266. Becks – The first round of calls came after she left the house with a living Caylee:

    1:26 she calls Jesse
    1:27 he calls her back
    1:44 she calls Amy
    2:52 Jesse calls her

    At 3:35, she called Tony Lazzaro and a couple of text messages came into her phone during this period. It is unknown whether Tony answered. The record shows an outgoing call.

    From this point to 4:10, the phone was idle and her flurry began

    4:10 father
    4:11 mother
    4:11 mother
    4:13 mother
    4:13 mother
    4:14 father
    4:21 Jesse
    4:25 mother

    And then a gap, with 2 incoming text messages and she called again

    6:31 mother
    6:32 mother
    6:32 home
    3 incoming texts
    7:06 home
    7:20 Amy
    7:21 Amy
    8:03 Annie D

    By then, she was at Blockbuster with Lazzaro

  267. Yes, Becks, that particular day might not have been planned and that’s the way I wrote this story. It may have been because of the fight with her mother the night before that provoked her so much.

  268. Dave, just took a few minutes to read your account of the day Caylee died. Very interesting and insightful.

  269. Dave- Thanks for simplifying the list so we can see just who she called and when. That’s very helpful.

    Of course, one can’t help but notice the 8 calls between 4: 10 and 4:25. Seemed as if she really urgently NEEDED to speak with Mom or Dad. Obviously, her persistence in those few minutes means it was more than just a casual, Hi How are Ya call.

  270. It sure does sound like it to me, Becks. That flurry, on the surface, looks frantic. I think Mom & Dad ignored her calls because they were still upset from the night before, at least her mother was. Was it right after the murder? The state will say so, I believe.

  271. DM; Yes thanks for the phone timelines. I was just thinking, how is it that Jesse is around? I thought she had ditched him way back when? It will be interesting to hear his testimony, as he has never spoken in his interviews about his up to the date relationship with Casey. Amy is another character that should shed some light on the matter. It is sad she took the money, cause that will definately impeach her statements.

  272. Weezie- Yes, it was good of Dave to catalogue those phone calls. They seem to me, a fairly significant piece of the puzzle. Have you speculated what Casey wanted to tll all thopse people she was trying to contact?

  273. The timelines do help, Weezie. Jesse lingered like a lot of her old boyfriends. She just kept stringing them along. As for Amy, I don’t know how much animosity she feels. Who knows, when she takes the stand and they look eye to eye, she might act a little differently. It’s tough to turn on friends.

  274. Becks; It’s pretty hard to speculate on what Casey was trying to do that day with all the phone calls going out. That’s why I think the calls to and from with Jesse might be meaningful to examine as well as Amy. It looks like both those people chose to call Casey back. However, if nothing has been detailed by either of these 2 by now, it likely was more innocent than not. The Defence will try to prove that Casey was always on her cell phone and that this didn’t amount to a hill of fact of fiction. We all know that is the purpose of the Defence. I think this is going to be a trial of disappointments for those who feel it might be a slam dunk. I am personally worried that the Defence will have all its’ ducks in a row, and that there will not be anything the Prosecution can bring to the table that the Defence hasn’t already countered in their arguments – yet to come.

  275. Weezie,

    I’m with you on the trial not being a slam-dunk. Yet, with my track-record-of-thoughts, my agreeing with you might not be so good of a thing. You see, I still hold the thought that a plea bargain will be negotiated.

    Okay, Dave…..you can laugh….AGAIN. lol

  276. What do you mean Newbie? Are my thoughts so off base? or you just feeding it so that DM will respond?
    DM: I would like to know the answer you might have given Becks 2:38 post…..

  277. Hi, Weezie – I was out for the afternoon. Here is what I answered for Becks (this is in reference to 16 June):

    The first round of calls came after she left the house with a living Caylee:

    1:26 she calls Jesse
    1:27 he calls her back
    1:44 she calls Amy
    2:52 Jesse calls her

    At 3:35, she called Tony Lazzaro and a couple of text messages came into her phone during this period. It is unknown whether Tony answered. The record shows an outgoing call.

    From this point to 4:10, the phone was idle and her flurry began

    4:10 father
    4:11 mother
    4:11 mother
    4:13 mother
    4:13 mother
    4:14 father
    4:21 Jesse
    4:25 mother

    And then a gap, with 2 incoming text messages and she called again

    6:31 mother
    6:32 mother
    6:32 home
    3 incoming texts
    7:06 home
    7:20 Amy
    7:21 Amy
    8:03 Annie D

    By then, she was at Blockbuster with Lazzaro

  278. Thanks Dave. I did read that post and thanked you for supplying such an accurate account. What I actually wanted was the answer to Beck’s question: “Have you speculated what Casey wanted to tell all thopse people she was trying to contact?”
    I responded to her my thoughts but wanted to know what you thought too.

  279. My goodness, Weezie. No, I don’t have a clue what she was thinking, but I’ll bet you it might have had to do with getting her mind off what she had just done.

  280. DM; IF she is deemed t0 be a Psychopath, I would say she had/has no guilt feelings. She might even feel sorry for herself being in jail and have convinced herself that Cindy and George are to blame. Yes too bad we don’t know what happened with those calls.

  281. Why NG and others go on and on and on about the same things beats me. Most of what they talk about now are conjectures from months ago. Silly. Is it against the law to stay at the Ritz? So what. Were they supposed to stay in the woods instead? After what they went through, if ABC NEWS puts them up in a fancy hotel, what business is it of NG’s and the others? Has NG ever slept at the Ritz? You betcha.

    I absolutely believe Casey blames her parents.

  282. Well, I thought Kiomarie’s story sounded fairly reasonable. But, then I read part of the article. She says Casey named Caylee with the middle name Marie after her (Kiomarie.) Um, we all know Cindy’s middle name is Marie, as is Casey’s.

    That pretty much blew Kiomarie’s story for me. She’s either kind of stupid (which could be since she was tight with Casey when younger) or flat out lying. Or actually, FABRICATING small truths to make the story more interesting and worth more $$$.

    She comes across as almost wanting credit for where Caylee’s remains were found. ‘Cause she told LE way back in August. Well, if anyone there had taken her seriously, maybe Caylee’s remains could have been found sooner. I can sort of see why they didn’t take her very seriously.

    And, if one of my BFF’s was being accused of this crime, and I thought it could be true, and I really thought that little body could be hidden in those woods – I would have been much more firm with LE about how serious I was. I would have walked to “the zone” with someone in LE.

    Instead, Kiomarie sells her story for $20,000 and brings a body guard to her deposition. That made me laugh.

    Casey sure could pick ’em.

    We don’t all agree on exactly how this murder went down. But, I think we do all agree it wasn’t planned very well. Yes, she had been thinking about it, but when she actually pulled the trigger on this, it wasn’t fully thought out.

    I find it hard to believe Casey managed to pull off the perfect murder without the precision planning and after planning that it would require.

    There is a rock solid piece of evidence somewhere in all this, that maybe we have not seen yet.

  283. But she definitely did NOT pull off the perfect murder. On the contrary, her story is rife with holes big enough to drive a semi through. All in all, a very poor job of planning and covering her tracks. Everything she has told LE can be easily verified or discounted, leaving Baez to deal with her swiss cheese defense.

  284. I don’t put a lot of faith in Kiomarie, either, Sheron, but she did say something compelling: That was where they buried their dead pets. I know it’s not “guilt by association” with the woods, but it sure is interesting that the body was found in the same place. I don’t know about you, but I’ve noticed a pattern with Casey’s female friends. Coincidence? I don’t know, but all of them are less attractive than Casey and tend to be overweight. Is that because she always wanted to look better than everyone else, especially in front of the guys?

    She’s always been a bad planner and you could be right. Not everything is disclosed because of the Sunshine Law. There might be more to it.

  285. Sharon; When you say “there is a rock solid pieace of evidence somewhere in all this, that maybe we have not seen yet”…… For who’s side do you mean?

  286. I’m not sure if I understand it the Anthony’s went to dinner at the Ritz before they heard Caylee’s body was found or was it after. Exactly who was at this dinner with them???

  287. Magog2. Not sure who was with them at the dinner at the Ritz, but it happened after the newscast and telephone call to them that remains had been found 15 houses from their own and that they had not been identified as Caylee’s yet.
    NG and talking heads point was: If that happened why would one even have an appetite after hearing that kind of news. They are saying the Anthony’s should have gone straight there to the site.
    You know damned if you do damned if you don’t. This is just balderdash conversation, that isn’t going anywhere unless Biaz brings it up in court. I think he would look the fool. Don’t forget he is going to question them on the stand and doesn’t want to make it so hostile that they might say something that would contradict his theory. I’m sure this will mount to nothing.
    The Anthony’s did not go to their own home for about a week between all the digging in the woods. I believe it wasn’t safe for them to return.
    If anyone has more specific information on how long they were not at their home, that would be helpful.

  288. In my opinion, it shouldn’t matter where the Anthonys ate, stayed or who they were with. ABC NEWS put them up for a few nights in return for interviews. I think the major stink comes from people who think they should have been out searching for Caylee instead. It’s no different from people who think Ronald killed Haleigh because he’s not out searching for her. DUH. That’s what we have police forces and the FBI for. They told him to stay home. Go to work. Let us do our job.

    My question is, why should it matter? It’s not against the law to stay at the Ritz Carlton. Don’t you think it was a nice escape from the hordes of idiots parked out in front of their house?

  289. I sure do Dave. Do you know how long they were away from their home? and were they staying with friends? Not that it matters I was just curious as to how much their lives had been put out of whack during this horrendous discovery. The point they were trying to make was not the Ritz but the timing. Why they didn’t go straight to the woods where they were digging. I know doesn’t that sound sooooo stupid?

  290. Weezie – You’re right. Law enforcement also put them up for 2 weekends after the body was found to carry out search warrants at their house. Law enforcement specifically told them to stay away from the crime scene. This is exactly what I’m talking about. They weren’t home and they never visited the woods. Therefore, they are guilty.

  291. I thought I heard Nancy Grace say there a lot of people at the Ritz dinner . I thought she said the name Jose Baez. Couldn’t possibly be because he was with Caylee at the jail to tell her. I am just curious as to who was there with the Anthonys.
    Was one of them Mr. Hoover?

  292. Magog2. I really don’t know the answer about the dinner guests at the Ritz. Is that important? If it is to you, try googling your question. Maybe DM knows.

  293. I don’t care if they ate before or after they learned Caylee’s remains were found. I was just checking on what Nancy Grace said last night. I thought maybe she made a mistake because she does tend to be wrong sometimes.

  294. Baez was not at the jail when news broke of Caylee’s discovery. He wanted to go but was not allowed to be there. George and Cindy were in California waiting to board a flight home when they learned of the news. They had appeared on Larry King the night before.

    Bianca Prieto | Sentinel Staff Writer
    2:53 PM EST, February 19, 2009
    An ABC producer paid for George Anthony and Cindy Anthony to stay at one of Central Florida’s most expensive hotels for three days in December after their missing granddaughter’s remains were found, according to newly released testimony.

    The couple stayed at the Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes from Dec. 11 to 14 after Caylee’s remains were found near their home. The company that footed the bill is owned by Disney.

    The new details were part of an interview of Anthony family private investigator Dominic Casey taken Jan. 7 by Orange County sheriff’s Sgt. John Allen and FBI Agent Nick Savage.

    Now, if you were the Anthonys, would you want to stay at home with crowds and crowds of hostile people hanging around your house? No, and that’s what they thought, too.

  295. Never in a million years, even with security surrounding the house. I hope they got a decent night’s sleep at that hotel.

    DM: Can we clarify? The night/ late afternoon the remains were located, how many days after was it verified it was Caylee and what were those dates? I am assuming on Dec. 11-14 was at the beginning of the find? (no verification it was Caylee). Also Biaz was at the jail when Casey was in the infirmary because he made a big stink that he wasn’t allowed to see his client. He wanted to watch it on his laptop with her present. Is that not so?

  296. Weezie – The remains were dicovered around lunch time on 11 December. The medical examiner made her findings public on 19 December and I wrote about it HERE.

    My point about Baez and the jail is that he wasn’t allowed to be with his client when she was told and he feels that was withholding his privilege to be with her. Whether he was inside the jail or in the parking lot doesn’t matter to me.

  297. I thought Baez was with Casey when she was told the remains of a ‘small body’ were found. I may be wrong, but I thought he told her and he shed a tear and she did not. That is why I thought he was fighting so hard for the public not to see the video. Like I said this is just what I thought I read or heard. Please don’t take it has documents that I have actually seen. Also when they stayed at the Ritz they were several people stayed with them, one being someone from ABC, Hoover, Dominic Casey, and at some point Baez and the other lawyer of Casey’s joined them. That is from reading Hoover’s statement and we all know you can’t put much merit in his word. After my Husband was murdered in 2000 the LE searched my house to try and find clues, I was ask to leave but in all honesty I did not want to be there. I have dealt with a Homicide and it is the most horrific thing a person can go through. There were many times when I acted strange and bizzare, you don’t know if your coming or going. It turns your whole life around in a matter of secounds. That was with a stranger killing my Husband while he was making a night deposit for the company he was employed with. You cannot even begin to realize what it will do to your life. Everything changes in the blink of an eye, and people hear things and it spreads like wildfire. I would not wish that on anyone. That is why like I said I reserve to judge the Anthony’s for their strange behavior, I myself acted strange I’m sure.

  298. Sorry about that I had my facts wrong about Baez being at the jail. Also the Anthony’s attorney Conway was with them at the Ritz.

  299. Was it withholding his privildege? How is that? My understanding of it is this: He was IN THE JAIL but was held back from seeing her due to her being escorted to the infirmary. I don’t know how long afterwards she was allowed to see him. But my feeling is this: Biaz wants to have a ruling on the priviledge that so that the statement from the guards regarding Casey’s reaction to the news will NOT BE ALLOWED. Does that sound complicated or relevant?

  300. Absolutely, SONINHEAVEN, Baez was not with Casey and that is the primary reason for depositions from the jailers yesterday and today.

    You certainly did go through a living Hell when you lost your husband. Believe me, I would listen to your words of wisdom before anyone else’s, especially from people who say they know how they’d act. they are the most irrational of them all.

  301. Weezie, I meant the prosecution. Planning the perfect murder would just be so hard, and we all know Casey isn’t much of a planner! LOL She had to have left a fingerprint or some DNA on something. I know there is already lots of circumstantial evidence – but I have the feeling there is something indisputable we just don’t know about yet.

    And Dave, yes, I have noticed Casey’s choice of female friends! She always gets to be the pretty, skinny one. Most of her friends in the photos look a little rough. They all WAY over tweeze their eyebrows! LOL

    I know you asked me where my daughter’s guy friend is going to college in Orlando – I just can’t remember where you asked, and I don’t think I answered yet. He’s going to UCF. It’s a little weird to me that if Traci goes to visit him in May, she’s going to check out Fusion. I don’t know why it creeps me out a little bit.

    I can’t say I totally understand about Cindy and George dining on steaks while the bones were being recovered – but I do understand why they wouldn’t want to be at their house or the site.

  302. Son in Heaven,

    Thanks for the info about who was with the Anthonys when they were in Califorinia. I thought that is who was there but not sure. Now I know. Thanks

  303. The latest discovery release contained phone records not released by the media (one had to get them from the SA’s office). These records included George and Cindy’s cell calls for June 1 through July 15, as well as the calls to/from the Anthony home.

    What is interesting is that on June 16 Cindy has no calls to / from her cell that day until the evening – she probably had it turned off.

    George’s is even more interesting. During the entire record from June 1 to July 15, George makes two calls to KC from his cell. One of those calls is at 3:04 on June 16. This call interrupts a call KC was having with Jesse Grund.

    One minute earlier, George had called the Anthony home. That call lasts 17 seconds – just long enough for the answering machine to pick up.

    So George called the home, got the answering machine, and then immediately calls KC. I think we can infer that George thought KC was at home, and when he did not reach her he called her cell.

    But how can that be? George saw them leave for work and KC told him they would be spending the night with Zanny.

    Well…remember, when George gave this account he was still in shock and still recalling events of June 9 and mapping them to June 16. The evening of June 9 KC and Caylee spent at Ricardo’s, so he mis-remembered that as the last time he saw Caylee.

    The point is, KC and Caylee never left Hopespring before 4:00 PM on the 16th. KC used the computer when George was not there from 2 – 3 PM (per discovery) and even uploaded a picture of Fusian at 10:30 AM when George was there (per Photobucket discovery).

    Given the weather late that afternoon, a pool death is looking less likely. An accidental death caused by sedating Caylee late that afternoon because KC could not reach Cindy for babysitting duties is looking more likely.

  304. Very good work, JWG, and thank you for taking time to share your information.

    We can only guess that George is wrong about the 16th. I think it’s safe to say Casey stayed around the house or at least, the immediate neighborhood. What leads me to want to believe George’s statement about that date is that it was the day after Father’s Day and as an ex-cop, he knew how to pay attention to small details, like what happened the day after a holiday, down to what Caylee wore. Sure, he could have been mistaken, but “could have” are the key words. I know it was rainy, but, living in Orlando, do you know how many times I’ve seen it rain on one side of the street and not the other? My point is not to disagree with you, but I took those things into consideration before I wrote the piece. Sure, I could be wrong. I even said it was a fictional account, but I don’t think any of us know anything for sure, other than from what the discovery documents have told us.

    You could very well be right, too, from what you gathered from the discovery documents. We have a resident sleuth and I don’t think she pinpointed the 2-3 computer usage on that day to Casey. I’d like to see those documents if you have them handy. Anyway, Cindy noticed the pool ladder and gate, George said he saw them leave. Either they are confused or they’re not. Uploading a picture at 10:30 am tells me nothing more than the fact that she was home, which I agree with.

    Please feel free to come in here any time with more information. We are all eager to learn new things about this case.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s